Motor Oil Question

[OriginalRocket]

If you Google the JASO MA rating system, you will see that it is a measure of transfer of friction, or rather the oil's ability to transfer mechanical energy. This is mostly focused on oil bathed clutch systems. "wet clutch". MB is the lowest of the low, pretty much any oil that falls out of spec from the MA, MA1, MA2 is a MB oil. Even Honda marks their MB motorcycle oil "with Molly" A known friction modifier substance that causes havoc with wet clutch systems.

The "SJ", "SL" rating is the PQIA API rating for what the oil is supposed to perform. Each rating from the past till present is supposed to be better in total for engine wear, MPG, and other parameters. The problem with the most recent ones, SM, SN is the anti-wear properties, specifically the catalytic converter destroying ones ( mostly ZDDP "zinc") are limited, and reduced from the previous ratings. This is why you are seeing molybdenum, Titanium, and other exotic elements now in oils!

Helpful graphic:

Cam on bucket engines really suffer when this is reduced cars from the 50's and 60's have problems with wear when low on zddp, you can even buy it in a liquid form to help with older engines.

The Honda PCX uses roller bearing cams and roller rockers, reducing friction, reducing wear. And since we do not have a wet clutch, a MA rated oil is not required.

These reasons are why some of us freely state, use whatever 10W30 oil you can find, just make sure it is quality, and meets or exceeds Honda's requirements.

[AustinPCX]

I find it hard to picture a bunch of old wives in the 80's discussing motorcycle oil.

As opposed to posting about it right now?

I imagined this was more of a old hubby's tale.

[frog13]

Amsoil was around in the 70's . Synthetics are not more slick then Dino , they have better flow characteristics .

[sendler2112]

Synthetics better

Now you are talking.

[SECoda]

Anyone using Lucas? Synthetic 4-Stroke 10W40 MB

I have it locally available for about $9 quart at Car Quest.

Lucas High Performance Synthetic 4T Motorcycle Oil with Moly 10777-1

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/luc-1 ... oCcX7w_wcB

Brand:Lucas Oil
Manufacturer's Part Number:10777-1
Part Type:Motor Oil
Product Line:Lucas High Performance Synthetic 4T Motorcycle Oil with Moly
Summit Racing Part Number:LUC-10777-1

Oil Type: Synthetic
Oil Weight: 10W40
ZDDP Enhanced: No
Oil Volume: 1 qt.
Quantity: Sold individually.
Notes: MB-rated for dry clutch models only.

[SECoda]

I have a 6 pack of the Lucas 10777 Synthetic MB coming for $52 shipped. Wish me luck.

[SECoda]

New oil arrived for scoots! About $8.70 US per quart.

[jkautz]

10w40 is safe to run on the PCX? It says in the manual to use 10w30

[SECoda]

We have been down this road before. I might stick with 10W-30 if I lived in a colder climate.

http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=773

[SECoda]

If I lived in California or Hawaii I would always go 10W-40. Seriously, the difference is so small and then when you add synthetic and Moly into the 10W-40 I think it makes little difference. There is no way one can detect the viscosity difference at operating temperature between the two although some claim they can. The trade-off of a bit more engine resistance for a bit better lubrication is negligible. I know an anal Harley guy that uses different oil in the summer and winter.

[SECoda]

Information on Honda oils from Honda (the horses mouth). HP4M which is the JASO MB indicated for our scooters is available in 10W-30 and 10W-40. Honda says if you run your engine hot like near red line for extended periods of time (like I think some of us do on highways, etc.) - go with the 10W-40.

http://prohondaoils.com/wp-content/them ... og2012.pdf

Here is a note on the 10W-40
Pro Honda HP4M - Silver bottle/black and gold label. Formulated for
high heat; 4-stroke motorcycle racing applications only. If the bike is
used for high performance riding and it will be operating at or near redline
for extended periods of time, this is your oil. HP4M with Moly is a blend
of synthetic and petroleum base stocks. The synthetic portion is very
effective, in high heat applications, at reducing oxidization, evaporation,
and viscosity loss. It also contains molybdenum (moly), a very slippery
substance. The moly contributes to less friction and heat in high
temperature situations, therefore allowing the motor to rev easier, creating more
horsepower! The negative part about moly is that it can build up on clutch plates
and accelerate clutch slipping on a clutch that is already starting to wear. It takes
several thousand kilometers for the moly to accumulate enough to cause this
slippage however - so if horsepower is your goal; HP4M is your oil. HP4M is
packaged in a silver bottle and is available in 10w40 viscosity.

[WhiteNoise]

Hey! Where's the OP (original poster), Clermontnick? We lost touch awhile back. You out there fellow PCXer with oily questions? Come on back now, Ya hear! Members just about got this wrapped up.
(Haha, oily questions Ya think?) Anyways, we hope you got things sorted. Cheers!

[jkautz]

Thanks for the info guys. I think in my area, I'll go with 10w40. I'm almost always on the highway, and the summers 90+ degrees. Thanks again

[jkautz]

But in the March-May months & September-November months, I'll run 10w30. June-August 10w40

[frog13]

Good solid info CODA.

[SECoda]

In Honda PCX 150 manual there is a chart that actually tells you to switch from 10W-30 to 10W-40 once the average atmospheric temperature gets beyond about 50 F. It doesn't get clearer than that. It should just about end the viscosity discussion (but I bet it doesn't ). Of course it tells one to only use JASO MB as well. Switching viscosity from summer to winter is probably optimal but I am sticking with 10W-40 since we are on the warm side most of the year.

Page 98
http://mototh.com/files/honda/PCX150i/H ... al-Eng.pdf

[frog13]

The 40 part of 10w 40 won't change to a 40 "weight"until a particular temp is reached . The 10w part is VERY important for start up.

[OriginalRocket]

In Honda PCX 150 manual there is a chart that actually tells you to switch from 10W-30 to 10W-40 once the average atmospheric temperature gets beyond about 50 F. It doesn't get clearer than that. It should just about end the viscosity discussion (but I bet it doesn't ). Of course it tells one to only use JASO MB as well. Switching viscosity from summer to winter is probably optimal but I am sticking with 10W-40 since we are on the warm side most of the year.

Page 98
http://mototh.com/files/honda/PCX150i/H ... al-Eng.pdf

You can only read that chart as: starting at 14F and above, you can use 10w30 and/or 10w40. There is no change over temperature between 30 and 40 grade oils.

The "30" and "40" viscosity rating of the oils are measured at 100C (212F) for reference for frog13, and yes frog13 is correct the first part is very important. kinematic viscosity at ambient air temperatures is why no one runs straight weight oils in modern road going vehicles.

[SECoda]

I think the main point is that folks were taking the service manual too literally and thinking they have to use 10W-30 (which it states) oil rather than 10W-40 so they were avoiding 10W-40 oil products which are much more common these days. The decision to avoid 10W-40 oils may not always be correct - especially in warm climates or running near red line a lot as highway commuters often do. Honda does recommend both weights of oil but didn't document it well enough IMO.

There is a lot of voodoo and snake oil in oil recommendations and advertising. Many folks blow the manufacturers recommendations out of the water and employ their own recipe for oil maintenance. Like break in procedures, Honda has been doing this a very long time with very extensive testing. Nothing else compares to that.

[OriginalRocket]

I agree with your statement. In the country of origin, Thailand. I've read that finding 30 weight oils is near impossible, and with the heat they experience, 40 weights make more sense, as the engine was designed to use either viscosity.