Crashed last week on A406

[GatorGreg]

Glad you didn't get hurt Boloney. I could see in the vid you pulled the left brake lever for the rear and linked front brake (I think it activates 1 of the 3 front calipers?), but do you remember if you also pulled the right brake lever as well for full front brakes too (thus activating all 3 front calipers)? Coming from my old Ninja 300 w/ ABS I'm very worried about this scenario of locking up the front wheel in the wet - with ABS I didn't worry too much about locking up a wheel.

[Boloney]

I have definitely pulled front brake, but unable to tell which was first. Pretty sure rear was first but I can't see it on the video.
It was really nice that people stopped and came out to see if I'm ok specially the one you have seen helping me to pick up all my stuff. Without him it would take me a lot longer to get moving again. My problem could be that I used to be on push bike and I'm holding my hand on the front break at all times. Now trying to stop doing it as it was second time I have slipped during last 10 months.

[honkerman]

I have definitely pulled front brake, but unable to tell which was first. Pretty sure rear was first but I can't see it on the video.
It was really nice that people stopped and came out to see if I'm ok specially the one you have seen helping me to pick up all my stuff. Without him it would take me a lot longer to get moving again. My problem could be that I used to be on push bike and I'm holding my hand on the front break at all times. Now trying to stop doing it as it was second time I have slipped during last 10 months.

Certainly recommend relying most on the combined brakes and engine braking, then using the front brake for final stopping. It certainly looks like you locked up the front wheel and with riding right on the oil slick as you were it would be a lot easier to do since there would have been less resistance. What gn2 and others have suggested about following distance is also very important. Laid my old scooter down three years ago because I'd gotten lazy about following distance and the guy in front of me braked hard. Learned my lesson and give at least 4 seconds stopping room when I can, even in my car.

[gn2]

Having your hand covering the brake isn't the problem.
Pulling the brake lever too hard for the available grip is.
When its wet you need to go easy because the available grip is reduced.
The force on the levers is very different between front and rear.
The rear being a drum brake needs a good hard pull, the front being a hydraulic disc does not need anywhere near so much effort.
You need to learn how to apply them properly and use them both together.
Also, increase your following distance to increase your safety margin.

[Oyabun]

IMHO the fact that you have a finger on the front brake lever is not bad at all - most advanced riding courses teach you to do so while cruising, so you shorten the time to break in case of an emergency.
I believe though that the last few comments have mentioned something important. Whith the linked brakes on the PCX pulling the rear brake lever also activates the front brake. One has to practice not to lock the front by adding too much stopping power to this. I know PCX owners who adjusted the combi brake system to have less front braking and some also completely disconnected the rear activated front brake as it can be very easy to slip your front with it - especially when riding on wet, oil contaminated surfaces.
After seeing your video a few times it seems to me that you're pulling the rear brakes quite hard - it might have locked your front all alone. Also while you're sliding the bike spins 180° - so while you definitely go down because a front lock your rear might have been locked too.
If you could remember how it happened - it might help to understand why you have went down and to practice a good avoiding technique ( e.g. right posture and even handlebar tension, quickly releasing brakes shen it starts to slip, starting to brake with the rear brakes and only apply front brake when the bike balance is on the front etc.)
There are quite good advanced riding courses where I live. On these you can safely learn and practice wet manouvering with instructors - if you are using your scoot all year I highly recommend them. (In most countries Honda has an own program also).
One technical stuff at the end. As the balance of the combi brake is not automatically adjusted as rear shoes wear gradually -it is very important to properly adjust the rar brakes regularly. In dry conditions it is not noticeable as the front has enough grip, and one gets used to pulling the rear a bit more firmly to get the same slowing effect. However in wet it can be quite a problem.

[chigman]

You got off lightly there fella, could have been a lot worse, especially on that crappy road. Glad you're OK though.

[Bash On!]

Nice that people helped. Had an m/c accident as a teen that was strong enough to break my helmet into two pieces.

There I am, lying by the side of the road, bike wrecked, helmet broken and nobody stops. Finally, somebody does, and asks me "Are you okay?" I was in pain but managed to reply "what do you think?" Was on the way to a fire service class and got a ride there. Spent the day fighting fires then decided it might be a good idea to see a doctor. Ah, youth.

[GatorGreg]

I have definitely pulled front brake, but unable to tell which was first. Pretty sure rear was first but I can't see it on the video.
It was really nice that people stopped and came out to see if I'm ok specially the one you have seen helping me to pick up all my stuff. Without him it would take me a lot longer to get moving again. My problem could be that I used to be on push bike and I'm holding my hand on the front break at all times. Now trying to stop doing it as it was second time I have slipped during last 10 months.

Here's an interesting article by Honda about their Combined Braking System:

http://world.honda.com/tech-views/motor/cbs/PCX/

After reading the article, I'm a bit confused on what I would have done in your slippery situation - I suppose it might have been best to resist using the right lever entirely and instead rely soley on the left lever to activate the rear brake along with just 1 of the 3 front brake calipers? I don't know if anyone can say for sure if it would have made any difference though in your circumstance.

[you you]

Ffs you were overtaking HGVs on a heavily, highly enclosed road in a very dangerous situation. On your twickly teeny weeny 7hp two wheeled step through.

Don't do it again and find some better roads to enjoy scootering again?

[sendler2112]

The road was unusually slippery in the center.

[dkazzed]

Ffs you were overtaking HGVs on a heavily, highly enclosed road in a very dangerous situation. On your twickly teeny weeny 7hp two wheeled step through.

Don't do it again and find some better roads to enjoy scootering again?

What was this in response to?

[honkerman]

Ffs you were overtaking HGVs on a heavily, highly enclosed road in a very dangerous situation. On your twickly teeny weeny 7hp two wheeled step through.

Don't do it again and find some better roads to enjoy scootering again?

What was this in response to?

pretty sure it's his interpretation of the video clip. It's accurate...if a bit harsh...but that's youyou for ya.

[sendler2112]

The rider did appear to make a startled movement with his head just before grabbing the brake. But I've never felt that the front brake of the PCX was all that grabby. The road must have been like grease in the center. All of the Honda world bikes I have ridden have their ft brake pads deigned on the sedate side for safety.

[iceman]

But if the front locked up, wouldn't it slide rather than twist suddenly to the right?

[gn2]

But if the front locked up, wouldn't it slide rather than twist suddenly to the right?

In the wet when the front wheel locks at speed it usually turns the steering either full right or left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ_UkAFW6cA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ
^these is why you should want ABS.

[Oyabun]

My understanding is that in case a major force does not steer it left - the front usually breaks out to the right.
This is ususally due to the different tension on the handlebars. As the rider manipulates the throttle with the right hand fine movements and preparation for reaction of the wrist does not allow to fully use it as support - while the left is stationary. This very slight difference of handlebar tension causes that if the rider is not specially trained and prepared it is very difficult to avoid breaking out in one direction in case of a front wheel lock.

[Oyabun]

The rider did appear to make a startled movement with his head just before grabbing the brake. But I've never felt that the front brake of the PCX was all that grabby. The road must have been like grease in the center. All of the Honda world bikes I have ridden have their ft brake pads deigned on the sedate side for safety.

I would not think that it would be the case with ALL Honda bikes. It might be for most though.

Actually I was missing feedback and the gradual feeling of braking on the PCX when I bought it. I felt very minimal increase as I was breaking and then all of a sudden it was blocking. I've upgraded my front brakes by changing the rotor and pads to EBC (grooved rotor and sintered pads) replaced the brake fluid, changed to aftermarket adjustable levers and reduced front brake bias on CBS. The whole thing was about 60 USD and 2 hours of work (mainly beacuse removing a major amount of tupperware is needed to reach the CBS system for adjustment and fluid change) - but it makes a worldof difference.

[iceman]

Wish ABS was an option on the PCX - many don't want to go to the Forza of other higher spec scooter but like the PCX for what it is - but we have no option for ABS! (an aftermarket ABS solution would probably be far too expensive to implement, even though it's only a £200 option for other new Honda bikes such as the SHi).

[dkazzed]

I wish so as well. Not sure about the UK but the Suzuki Burgman 200 is the smallest ABS option in Canada, but at $5099 it's hard to choose a Honda CB 300FA for $4699 over a scooter, especially since said Honda has $300 off right now.

[gn2]

In the UK there's a few 125s with ABS, Honda SH and Forza, Vespa Primavera and Sprint and Yamaha Nmax.
The Yamaha is cheaper than the PCX so I can't understand why anyone in the UK would choose a PCX right now.

In France there's even more 125s with ABS.