That seat 'opener damper'

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:32 pm

The strut is beside the hinge.
Mine works perfectly and is mounted pushrod facing down.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:33 am

From Honda Forza NSS300A Parts Catalog 2014.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:32 am

& some more details. Plenty of Newton to choose from! Just make sure about the length of each part.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:09 pm

... & the diameter of the gas spring... Of course each end is pre-fixed. Suitable for ball studs.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:28 pm

That thing is 70 euro!!! & 40 bucks (from the dealership). Reasonable price...

Atis · Post by **Atis** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:40 pm

Before making the change don't forget to consider the strength of the sockets, what they are mounted to and the seat hinge. After raising the pressure of the shock you could find out that the OEM pressure is all the setup can handle without re-engineering it and Honda decided not to do it. I wouldn't go for any more than required to get the job done. Just something to think about. In any case I do appreciate the effort to come up with a solution.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:07 pm

I agree with you. But, as you can see, the Newton increments are just 50.

BRed · Post by **BRed** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:28 pm

a different perspective....

It appears to me that the damper is strong enough, but needs a few more millimeters of reach? Maybe 0.5 "?

If the damper could increase the seat's open angle by 5-8 degrees, more of the weight would be over the hinge and less on the damper?

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:34 pm

Why not? We need details of your old part BRed. The gas springs start from 106mm and the increment is 40mm. What is the diameter of both parts of it & how long is it measuring from the ball stud holes (fully extended)?

BRed · Post by **BRed** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:53 pm

Eh, so far I haven't been able to move it.....that sucker is strong!

I'll see what I can do to extend it.

Atis · Post by **Atis** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:53 pm

BRed wrote:a different perspective....

It appears to me that the damper is strong enough, but needs a few more millimeters of reach? Maybe 0.5 "?

If the damper could increase the seat's open angle by 5-8 degrees, more of the weight would be over the hinge and less on the damper?

If the room is available, I agree this approach would be best since it would resolve the drop problem and provide more clearance to reach in.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:06 pm

What do you mean you have NOT been able to move it?

BRed wrote: Here are two pics of my spare seat damper from the salvaged Forza:

What is the total length? & width of the two parts? Then we take from there. We try a bit longer (next size is 40mm longer) or one size thicker (2mm & 4mm respectively for each part of the gas spring) or even both plus 50 Newton stronger.

BRed · Post by **BRed** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:31 pm

I mean I cannot physically exert enough pull or grip to extend the damn thing using gloves and common tools.

I don't want to destroy it by just clamping it in a vice and prying it open.
I don't have ball fittings to match the sockets on each end (they are identical)....
they are also plastic so they won't bear up to being clamped.

When we open it on the bike, we have 3 feet of leverage on a resistive force less than one inch from fulcrum.....
that is HUGE leverage.

come to think of it, leverage will be the key to extending it, if I can figure out a way to anchor the ends without breaking them.

I'll post the other measurements when I get home.

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:04 pm

Never mind about the fully extended length BRed. The measurement when the gas spring is fully compressed is crucial too (measuring from one ball stud hole to the other). That, along with the thickness of the two parts and the Newtons (as I see from the second picture it says 500N of force) and we can be sure which one is it and which one to choose for a better replacement.

fish · Post by **fish** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:31 pm

I've looked at a bunch of scooter review videos....and this is the kind of thing I'm thinking of doing with my Forza. Rather than trying to make that gas piston lift my seat from such a troublesome position down at the bottom, buried in the bodywork.
There are several US websites that offer these gas lifts...with info about their capabilities and the various mountings and rod- end fittings.
A trip to a maxi scoot dealer to see how they've been fitted....parts #. ?
I just would like my seat to open without the drama. Some heavy black plexi, some epoxy, the mounting plates, end fittings, stainless coarse thread screws, etc. Nothing is 'pulling', it is only pushing. Yes?
Work out the part length, strength, end fittings, and positioning of the mounting points. Leave the Honda part in place - and give it this helper?

Fish

speedandstyle · Post by **speedandstyle** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:11 pm

Seeing how Honda mounted it I can see why you all are having issues - it is too close to the hinge! Fish figured that out by looking at what other scoots have. My Burg has it's strut mounted very similarly to the picture above{except on the other side}.

Not sure how to mount, or if there is room, but a "hinge coil spring"{aka torsion spring} added to the hinge might also help. They can be found at many hardware stores or salvaged from some other source.

Here is a place that will make custom springs - a single one might be pricey though.
http://optimumspring.com/products/torsion_springs.aspx

BRed · Post by **BRed** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:11 pm

well it is stubby!

overall length, center to center of the ball sockets is 110mm...
that IS the extended length, by the way (d'oh! .... no wonder I couldn't extend it)
compressed length is 96mm, so <15mm travel.

if you look at the pics I posted you'll also see a slight wear mark where the damper cylinder rubs against the body work at some point....
this suggests to me the diameter cannot be larger than the current damper, which is 18mm.

I'm thinking the easiest way to gain a few degrees on the seat angle with the same amount of lift on the damper is by somehow lowering the seat hinge pivot point a few mms.

No frame holes are drilled perfectly and most are slightly oversized for ease of assembly, so it's possible there's that much play in the 3 pieces of the hinge hardware and the seat as its all being tightened... in other words shifting the seat hinge components relative to each other during assembly could mean the difference between a damper that supports the seat and one that's slightly over-reached when extended?

does that make sense?

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:18 am

Well, with the facts you gave us, the best choice would be the one highlighted (115mm compressed length & 40mm stroke & 400N, as for the Newtons & the thickness, we don't have much of a choice, if we jump to a thicker one/stronger one -19mm cylinder thickness with 145mm compressed length, 60mm stroke & 500 or 600N or even 700 or 800N- it won't let the seat close entirely because it is 90mm longer):

DioTiAma · Post by **DioTiAma** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:18 am

Update: the "0500N" on the cylinder means it produces a force of 500 Newton. So, we can not choose something weaker! I will order the product with Reference No.: 2617NL (145mm fully compressed, 60mm stroke -it can push the seat way up-, 19mm of cylinder thickness & with a force of 600N).

you you · Post by **you you** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:07 pm

DioTiAma wrote:Update: the "0500N" on the cylinder means it produces a force of 500 Newton. So, we can not choose something weaker! I will order the product with Reference No.: 2617NL (145mm fully compressed, 60mm stroke -it can push the seat way up-, 19mm of cylinder thickness & with a force of 600N).

I don't think it'll produce any force, never mind 500 newtons. Perhaps resistance?

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That seat 'opener damper'

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