Belt, clutch & face set - 1st maintence after 4.5 years!

[iceman]

Today I intended to replace the noisy face set driven part as it's been graunchy for a long time due to bad bearings or lack of grease. I also had a new belt, rollers and clutch pads to go on.

Come time to remove the transmission cover I met with the 1st hurdle - it was stuck solid and took ages before it came off - I honestly thought it would never come off! After nearly 5 years of grime and weather I guess it was not going to be easy. Sadly the variator tool I purchased was no use for the variator as the small studs were too short and kept coming out so I will have to modifiy it and add some longer bolts. It was fine to hold the clutch bell and remove that nut.

I parked the job for now putting everything back as-was but cleaned as much dust and grime as I could whilst I had the covers off. The double cogged belt looked in great condition with no cracks but I could not check the width, and the variator surface I could see looked smooth with no obvious lines. The clutch pads looked ok too but I will fit the 'non-pcx' style to aid smoother take-off.

[springer1]

Will be interesting to read your progress .... what mileage is on your PCX ?

[cnikonpete]

Especially the tool that was no good,was it a universal one ?

[homie]

I have a little trouble with your math given the year of your bike but I CONGRATULATE you profusely for wrenching yourself. Your engine wants to run on so yes get everything in the train leveled up and ride on into the sunset. WN can clean that up for you

[iceman]

I've now done 16,000 UK miles and still averaging 130mpg (fuelly)
The Reg is a 14 plate and purchased May '14 but I believe classed as 2015 by Honda (profile updated). One of the 1st LED versions. Surprised it had a two sided cogged belt fitted as I thought that was a newer introduction by Honda.
So, Homie that makes roughly 4.5 years on the road and used every day for work all year round and only missed 2 days in that time due to heavy snow. Otherwise I ride in the wet and light snow - best part of 4 years of that on good ol IRC's

The Tool is like this one: https://tinyurl.com/y9y94usa

So far I've only changed the front pads (once), oil about three times and recently a front brake caliper which came complete with pistons. The old caliper still servicable and the old pistons were easily removed with a tool for cleaning.

[iceman]

For those who have not checked their variator or clutch in years, it's good advice to have a peek and see what state things are in. My bike was riding well, just with take-off shudder at times and now the need to check and change the belt and such, but lots of dust or clutch pad powder came out of the bell housing.
Waiting for a run of days off post nights to do the work, still got to sort the home-made variator mod so it fits the holes - 6mm I believe although someone said 1/4" fits better?

[iceman]

Just made a home made variator tool similar to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAimvORFI
When I get some days off I will see if that works, otherwise a plate that fits in the finns and locks to the cover holes will have to be made.

[you you]

Just made a home made variator tool similar to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAimvORFI
When I get some days off I will see if that works, otherwise a plate that fits in the finns and locks to the cover holes will have to be made.

You'll make the Finns angry

[iceman]

Well, failed again at releasing the variator nut. The new tool I made out of 5mm aluminium bits (similar to one in the link above) bent about 30 degrees as did one of the 6mm bolts!
This was using a normal length tool and 6-sided socket as I do not have a breaker bar (don't want to use the torque wrench to undo a possibly over-tightened nut). Not sure what way to go now to release the damned nut!

[Old Grinner]

Well, failed again at releasing the variator nut. The new tool I made out of 5mm aluminium bits (similar to one in the link above) bent about 30 degrees as did one of the 6mm bolts!
This was using a normal length tool and 6-sided socket as I do not have a breaker bar (don't want to use the torque wrench to undo a possibly over-tightened nut). Not sure what way to go now to release the damned nut!

Tough situation indeed. Here's some videos I spotted in addition to one from the series of videos Homie did that shows how to put everything back together.

FWIW I bought a Motion Pro Clutch Holding tool and a Kawasaki electronic impact wrench some time ago to have on hand when I'd need to replace a belt/rollers etc. . . but haven't had a chance to use them yet.

Homie's reinstall video. . ..



Videos that show several methods by other scooter owners to solve the stubborn variator nut removal dilemma. I don't have my PCX anymore and didn't get enough miles on it to need to replace the belt or rollers/sliders but will have my time in hell further down the road with my Zuma. Keep us posted on your solution though. Inquiring minds would like to know. . ..

[Old Grinner]

Here's one more vid using a strap wrench. . ..



Good luck!

[springer1]

Well, failed again at releasing the variator nut. The new tool I made out of 5mm aluminium bits (similar to one in the link above) bent about 30 degrees as did one of the 6mm bolts!
This was using a normal length tool and 6-sided socket as I do not have a breaker bar (don't want to use the torque wrench to undo a possibly over-tightened nut). Not sure what way to go now to release the damned nut!

I've used a manual "impact tool / driver" for years - but NOT on nuts that were on the END of a crankshaft, transmission, etc. I'm concerned that the required "face on" whack from a hammer to the manual impact tool would damage something internally. But an air driven impact tool doesn't have that "face on" impact, only a lateral impact, neither would using a hammer on a simple wrench.

So, I'd consider using a "Locking / Holding Tool" of some sort - homemade or otherwise to secure things - and then either use an air impact tool (preferable) or just sharply whacking a stout wrench sideways with a heavy hammer. Don't be timid about it.

That's just what I'd do if it were mine, but your PCX is yours so do what YOU think is right.

[Old Grinner]

I've used a manual "impact tool / driver" for years - but NOT on nuts that were on the END of a crankshaft, transmission, etc. I'm concerned that the required "face on" whack from a hammer to the manual impact tool would damage something internally. But an air driven impact tool doesn't have that "face on" impact, only a lateral impact, neither would using a hammer on a simple wrench.

So, I'd consider using a "Locking / Holding Tool" of some sort - homemade or otherwise to secure things - and then either use an air impact tool (preferable) or just sharply whacking a stout wrench sideways with a heavy hammer. Don't be timid about it.

That's just what I'd do if it were mine, but your PCX is yours so do what YOU think is right.

I don't have access to an "air powered" impact wrench so I bought this Kawasaki one. It's a bit on the heavy side but I'm confident it will do the job when duty calls. You are right about the hammer type impact wrench I think. I have one of those and your theory about the lateral force is the reason I bought the electric one.

[iceman]

Thanks all. I was concerned about using a strap wrench for this in case the nut would not budge and the inner parts turned too much and damaged something internally < the inner parts settle at the bottom (crank?) and that turns freely only part way (half moon sort of)

[gn2]

The Tool is like this one: https://tinyurl.com/y9y94usa

I bought one of those tools for my Forza and encountered the same problem with the pins being too short.
Easily solved, the pins unscrew and you can stick longer bolts in.
Don't try jamming the fins, you run the risk of breaking them, and they are the fan which draws and circulates cooling air through the whole transmission system....

[gn2]

I've used a manual "impact tool / driver" for years - but NOT on nuts that were on the END of a crankshaft, transmission, etc. I'm concerned that the required "face on" whack from a hammer to the manual impact tool would damage something internally. But an air driven impact tool doesn't have that "face on" impact, only a lateral impact, neither would using a hammer on a simple wrench.

So, I'd consider using a "Locking / Holding Tool" of some sort - homemade or otherwise to secure things - and then either use an air impact tool (preferable) or just sharply whacking a stout wrench sideways with a heavy hammer. Don't be timid about it.

That's just what I'd do if it were mine, but your PCX is yours so do what YOU think is right.

I don't have access to an "air powered" impact wrench so I bought this Kawasaki one. It's a bit on the heavy side but I'm confident it will do the job when duty calls. You are right about the hammer type impact wrench I think. I have one of those and your theory about the lateral force is the reason I bought the electric one.

Electric, air or manual hammer, they all work the same way and should not be used on CVT transmissions.
They're called "Impact" for a reason.....

[Old Grinner]

Electric, air or manual hammer, they all work the same way and should not be used on CVT transmissions.
They're called "Impact" for a reason.....

Interesting. . ..

Using a clutch/variator holding tool along with a rotary type impact wrench is taboo? I honestly did not know that. . ..

I can understand that just using and air/electric impact wrench on a variator or clutch nut without having a holding tool in place could be harmful though. . .the repeated cycles and shock on the crank and drive line parts.

That said what is your preferred method not using a powered impact wrench?

I can always find another use for my Kawasaki electric impact wrench. . .it won't be money down the drain.

[you you]

You can use an air or electric wrench on a crankshaft mounting. It’ll be absolutely fine.

[gn2]

Using a clutch/variator holding tool along with a rotary type impact wrench is taboo? I honestly did not know that. . ..

That's not what I said.
I'll try again....
Using a holding tool is redundant if you use an impact tool.
Impact tools should not be used.

I can understand that just using and air/electric impact wrench on a variator or clutch nut without having a holding tool in place could be harmful though. . .the repeated cycles and shock on the crank and drive line parts.

Holding tool makes no odds, the problem is that an impact tool effectively hammers the nut inwards as well as rotating it.
It is the inwards force which is potentially damaging and the holding tool does nothing to prevent this inwards force.

That said what is your preferred method not using a powered impact wrench?

Normal method is holding tool and a regular half inch drive with correct size socket.

If you use an impact tool you can very easily damage threads.
So best avoided.

[springer1]

Electric, air or manual hammer, they all work the same way and should not be used on CVT transmissions.
They're called "Impact" for a reason.....

Sort of ....

The difference between an Air or Electric Impart tool and a Manual impact tool is that the Manual tool works by striking it "face on" or directly, the direct face-on hammer shock and the screw threads INSIDE the tool are what then provide the twisting lateral forces to "unscrew" the nut or bolt. A Manual impact tool is not struck face-on. An Air or Electric tool has only lateral force so there's no or less potential damage to internal mechanisms.

Also, I don't understand how either can damage a thread.

Am I incorrect ?