Blown Head Gasket (one year old bike)

[jims]

I thought I would tell everyone about my current problems with a 2013 150 with a bad head gasket. It showed up this spring with a no start on a cold engine. It got worse as more coolant was leaking into the cylinder which fouls the spark plug. I started to put the bike back together last week but damaged a oil control ring. New ring set should be in Wednesday so I will try again to get the piston back in cylinder with the engine on the tail gate of my pickup truck instead of 6 inches off the ground.

[ScooteringAbout]

This has to be the first PCX head gasket issue I have heard of. You don't own a Rover do you?

[you you]

This has to be the first PCX head gasket issue I have heard of. You don't own a Rover do you?

Man of experience. Complete dogs

[jims]

So I purchased a tube of Permatex 51813 Anaerobic Gasket Maker and plan on coating both sides of the head gasket before reassembly. Any thoughts on this belt and suspenders approach to my problem? I did check the head and the cylinder for flatness and it was all within the .002 tolerance. I don't want to ever have to do this job again.
So far I have spent:
$5.00 spark plug from a independent motorcycle shop.
$3.75 head gasket
$3.45 cylinder gasket
$10.50 ring set
$13.00 Permatex and a bit of coolant
I'm writing the above just to give everyone a idea on what the dealer price would be on engine parts. I don't feel so bad because the parts are so cheep. I have another bike that needs a new head light lens and its well over two hundred dollars.

[Bash On!]

This has to be the first PCX head gasket issue I have heard of. You don't own a Rover do you?

Man of experience. Complete dogs

Jaguar, Triumph, Peugeot, Renault--had them all and all were dogs. Love the Rovers but don't have the patience for French or British engineering any more.

[maddiedog]

Hi Jims, welcome to the forum.

That's the first I've heard a head gasket failing on a PCX.

I did not use any Permatex on my gaskets when I threw on the big bore kit, and have had no issues since. Honda doesn't use anything of the sort, but it can't hurt. Go sparingly so you don't accidentally smoosh a bunch of it into your cylinder, oil, or coolant passages.

[jims]

Thanks for the welcome maddiedog. I did plan on just a thin coat on the new head gasket to avoid the problems you mention. A little more background on this problem. The bike was purchased new a year ago April. I drove 1200 trouble free miles last year and put it away November last year. It came out of winter storage toward the end of April when it was still cool. Bike would not start. I pulled the plug and dried it off and was on my way. My thinking at the time was that I put too much Sta-bil in the gas. After changing the gas and getting stuck even with a new plug I was baffled. Well I found out the Coolant Temperature Indicator does work. I pulled the Tupperware and re-torqued the head with no good result. So, here I am with a bike in pieces. Hope I can remember were all the screws go!

[jims]

By the way, I still love this little motor scooter!

[tbln930]

If you get a chance please take a few disassembled pictures and where it leaked. Thanks

[fun2scoot]

...put it away November last year. It came out of winter storage toward the end of April...

It is possible the coolant was below -35°F and solidified or crystallized, which could weaken the gaskets and O-rings. Especially with only .48L capacity in a NH winter. 70/30 mix would work up there. Use only Honda coolant.

[jims]

Well fun2scoot I did think of that and that is a very good theory, but there is no way for me to tell. I never checked it and assumed the dealer would know what they were doing. It would not be the first time Honda has screwed up on a bike that I got from them.

Well I ran into another problem today and broke a cylinder head sealing bolt. I think the service manual is mislabeled so I over torqued it. Anyways, 2 new 6mm bolts should be into the Honda Dealer next Tuesday.

[jims]

Sorry Tbln930, I have no idea how to post pictures at this time. I just joined this forum a couple of days ago so have not had time to figure it out. I can give you a description. The gasket was leaking into the cylinder from the head side. The side of the gasket against the cylinder still looked okay. It looks like the metal gasket coated with silicon had delaminated.

[GeorgeSK]

Hi jims -
For pics, select "Full Editor" below the "Quick Reply" box. Upload Attachment is then available below your text, and you get to choose if you want the pic(s) in line or at the end. You may need to use Pixresizer (http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm) or some other program if you need to get your pics down below 2 Mb.

Sad about your issue - you seem to be taking it remarkably well. I would be screaming blue bloody about the lack of warranty coverage.

[iceman]

'lack of warranty coverage' < reading the thread I am unclear on whether the dealer had said it's not covered under warranty - comments such as 'just purchased from a dealer a yr ago, assume dealer knows what they are doing, etc, and now selling bits to help repair the issue'. So, had your dealer refused to look into this under warranty, or Honda themselves advise the dealer it's not covered?

Did you have the service schedule followed and the book stamped by a dealer / approved garage?

[jims]

Iceman, I did not approach the dealer about the problem. It was a little over a month pass the warranty and I had changed the coolant to a 50/50 mix of a different color coolant. I was still trouble shooting the issue because it was somewhat intermittent for the first month of riding this year. I did not notice the coolant going down and was not riding much yet.

The dealer has not seen the bike after I picked it up. I did the first service myself at around 600 miles and the second oil change at around 1200 miles last November before I put it up for the winter. The dealer is about 50 miles away so I did not plan on seeing them very much.

[itcaptainslow]

This has to be the first PCX head gasket issue I have heard of. You don't own a Rover do you?

Funnily enough the K Series is a brilliant engine when a/ it's looked after by the owner and not abused and b/ maintained and fixed by someone who knows what they're doing with it.

I've seen more issues on these caused by poor/lack of preventative maintenance and basic care rather than actual material failures.

But hey, it's an easy stereotype and mud to sling...

[itcaptainslow]

Iceman, I did not approach the dealer about the problem. It was a little over a month pass the warranty and I had changed the coolant to a 50/50 mix of a different color coolant. I was still trouble shooting the issue because it was somewhat intermittent for the first month of riding this year. I did not notice the coolant going down and was not riding much yet.

The dealer has not seen the bike after I picked it up. I did the first service myself at around 600 miles and the second oil change at around 1200 miles last November before I put it up for the winter. The dealer is about 50 miles away so I did not plan on seeing them very much.

I wonder if you've introduced an air lock into the coolant circuit when the coolant was replaced, which has caused localised overheating and subsequent failure.

[jims]

itcaptailslow, I changed the coolant after the head gasket failed, and after I found the coolant low in the system, and after I re-torqued the head. I think Fun2scoot may have the best theory of a possible freeze up. Maybe these bikes are filled with coolant at the factory in Asia. It gets pretty cold in the northeast US and anything other that 50/50 mix won't cut it.

[itcaptainslow]

Ah I misunderstood-apologies.

[Bash On!]

But hey, it's an easy stereotype and mud to sling...

Stereotype? Mud-slinging? You're a tad sensitive about this. We're talking about a car brand not a person.

Besides, Rover's bad reputation is well-earned over many years, and is continuing.

Here's just one report:
JD Power 2015 VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study) Rating: With 258 problems per 100 vehicles, Land Rover was second worst of all car manufacturers listed, ahead of only FIAT (which if anything, has a worse rep--though you pay a lot less for the torture).

Citing one component (an engine) does not reflect the overall reliability of a vehicle.

That said, if Rover were to offer the Defender again in the US, I'd be first in line to buy one--reliability be damned. I'd keep my PCX, though, as I'd need at least one dependable vehicle.