Ethanol Free

[iyernat]

Hello All

I have a new Racetrac gas station that opened very near my home and I saw that they offer ethanol-free-94 gasoline. Would that be good for the PCX ? it is a bit more expensive - but on a scooter where I ride for less than 150 miles a month - I am looking at less than 50c per month extra.

Thanks

[gn2]

The PCX is designed to run on a 10% ethanol mix.
There is no benefit whatsoever from ethanol free.
Unless it helps stop the voices in your head....

And 94 is the wrong octane rating.

[GeorgeSK]

PCX doesn't care, although EtOH-free gas does not adsorb water as quickly as 10% does. Given that you are in humid Florida and that you don't run through that much gas, there may be a benefit. I can tell you that my sailboat outboard would LOVE to be your neighbor.

[Jge64]

I live in Florida and I wouldn't buy it for daily use. The only time I buy it if if I was putting the bike away for six months.

[iyernat]

I double checked today and I stand corrected - it is Ethanol Free - 87 (not 94). It is about 80c more expensive per US gallon ($3.04 vs $2.22). It also has a separate pipe and hence there should be no residual "other gasoline". As the scooter fills for just about a gallon - I feel I always get the residual anyway but not in this case.

If it makes a bit of difference in either longevity of my scooter and/or prevention of any fuel related issues - I will fill with that. Please advice.

[GeorgeSK]

One USD a month (given your milage per month) seems like inexpensive insurance to me. If it were available here, I would go for it.

[jblye]

10% ethanol gas definitely reduces gas mileage versus ethanol-free gas.

My PCX150 gets 105-108 mpg on ethanol-free gas. That's all that I have routinely used.
I tried a few tanks of 10% ethanol gas just for comparison. The mileage
dropped to 95-100 mpg every time.

My car gets about 32 mpg on a freeway-only trip to Virginia when using ethanol-free gas.
With 10% ethanol gas, the mileage drops to about 28 mpg.....same trip. In both cases,
the cruise was set to the legal limit plus 5 mph, so it's a valid comparison, I think.

Ethanol produces less power for a given quantity versus gasoline, so "watering" gasoline
down with ethanol would produce less power (and mileage) per gallon.

I use only ethanol-free gas in my PCX, since some of the extra cost is offset by the higher
gas mileage.....and I don't have to be concerned about POSSIBLE ethanol damage to that teeny-tiny
motor with it teeny-tiny fuel system parts.

To each his / her own, though.
Johnny

[DailyRider]

No kidding, ethanol picks up water more easily? That explains a lot.

Here in awesomely humid and flood-damaged Columbia,
some stations are probably pumping gas that's already wet.

[jblye]

Just to clarify:

When I said "Ethanol produces less power for a given quantity versus gasoline, so "watering" gasoline
down with ethanol would produce less power (and mileage) per gallon.", I didn't mean to imply that ethanol
inherently contains water.

Here's a better way of saying it (I hope) :

"Ethanol produces less power for a given quantity versus that same quantity of gasoline; so, a gallon of gasoline/ethanol mix would produce less power (and mileage) per gallon than a gallon of gasoline which has no ethanol in it."

Johnny

[jblye]

Additional info:

A gallon of gasoline contains about 1/3 more energy than a gallon of ethanol.

A gasoline / ethanol mix burns cleaner than non-ethanol gasoline.

Non-ethanol gasoline will steadily become less available.....nearly non-available by 2022.

Johnny

[jblye]

Since ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline, the logical question might be:
Why are alcohol race cars (e.g., Alcohol Funny Cars used in drag racing) faster than similar cars
which use gasoline? Here's one reason why (from Hot Rod Network):

"An engine that is burning methanol or ethanol can support a much higher compression ratio. It’s not uncommon to see alcohol engines using as high as 13:1 or 14:1 compression ratios with little fuel-related problems. Of course, high compression engines have other mechanical issues that aren’t related to fuel. That said, alcohol can support some very high compression engines without the fuel causing detonation issues which can occur when gasoline is used."

To take it to the next level, current Top Fuel dragsters are producing 10,000 (yes, ten thousand) horsepower using
nitromethane fuel to accelerate from 0 to 320 mph in less than 4 seconds. All of the top level drag strips have shortened
their 1/4 mile runs (1320 feet) to just 1,000 feet; otherwise, the top dogs would now be approaching 350 miles per hour
in the quarter mile. Approximately 6 gallons of nitro fuel are used in a 1,000 foot run. Since nitro fuel costs at least
$135 per gallon (about a year ago), we probably won't be using it in our PCXs any time soon .....

Johnny

[DailyRider]

Thanks JBlye, that's good info.

Actually, I was responding to one of GeorgeSK's posts in an unclear way.

There are a lot of poorly-maintained gas stations around here
and I've been trying to figure out why the gas from some of them causes more problems
with my new fuel injected scooter, than it did with my old carburetor-bearing scooter.

There's probably more than one problem, but wet gas would explain some of it.

[GeorgeSK]

Any possibility that you happened to fuel up after the station got a new delivery? Adding new gas to the big tanks always stirs up lots of crap, including any actual free water at the bottom (shouldn't be any, but...). Our little injectors are a lot more fussy than any carburetor, at least as far as crap in the gas is concerned. We are also squirting in a lot less gas, so a reduction in the expected energy of the fuel would cause a loss of power or smoothness.

I guess you need to find a reliable gas station and stick to it if possible.

[DailyRider]

Well, the most memorable case of bad gas was when I had some fool next to me, gassing up his pickup by click, click, clicking on the handle.

I think he thought he would get more gas that way, but all it seemed to do was stir up the junk in the underground tank.