honda forza 300 - help from Italy!

[robertinino]

hi be red
how are you?
do you have good news with the news with the 24x18 test?

ciaoo

[Mario]

Hi Robert, (and Thanks Edward for the great info!!)

I am getting my new Forza 300 next week and also want to tune the variator with the sliders and rollers, can you share me the links from where you ordered them?

Greetings,

Mario
The Netherlands

[Oyabun]

Ed,

Do You think that your "poor man's JCosta"setup could work on the PCX125 also?
If so do Have any recommendation how to start finding the right setup?
Thanks in advance

[robertinino]

hi mario,
I'm a still waiting for a reply from Ed about a new test with 24x18 sliders at place of 23x18. Anyway this is the link where I ordered dt pulley sliders in Europe:
http://www.drpulley.info/shop/index.php ... ubptnedda7
As regard rollers carbon fiber, Ed suggest me "Adige brand" (italian brand) but is impossible to find them in Italy!!! So you have to order rollers in U.S.A, or if you want there are some good carbon fiber rollers 23x18 15 grams also in Europe.
Tell me which combination in grams did you choose?
ciao
Robert

Hi Oyabun!

[robertinino]

to Ed:
look at this link : http://www.drpulley.info/shop/product_i ... cts_id=855
Do you think this se pulley vario is suitable for honda forza 300?
ciao Ed
hope to see you soon

[Mario]

Hi Robert,

I was thinking of 19g for the sliders and 16g for the rollers because this was the last advice I have found from Ed.

And I already found a Dutch site who sell them they come including free Dr Pulley Slide Piece SP2418 K
http://maksor-scooterparts.com/dr-pulle ... 418-k.html

And for the rollers,
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Pesos-Variador-V ... 19f4c32e0a

But first A have to get my new Forza next Friday so I am not in a hurry, also need the tools.


Greetings,

Mario

hi mario,
I'm a still waiting for a reply from Ed about a new test with 24x18 sliders at place of 23x18. Anyway this is the link where I ordered dt pulley sliders in Europe:
http://www.drpulley.info/shop/index.php ... ubptnedda7
As regard rollers carbon fiber, Ed suggest me "Adige brand" (italian brand) but is impossible to find them in Italy!!! So you have to order rollers in U.S.A, or if you want there are some good carbon fiber rollers 23x18 15 grams also in Europe.
Tell me which combination in grams did you choose?
ciao
Robert

Hi Oyabun!

[robertinino]

Mario.
this is what Ed suggest to me: 20 grams sliders - 15 grams rollers
this is the video of Ed forza's with this set up : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M464cSwtfXs

ciao
Robert

[robertinino]

in this mix set up:3 DR PULLEY SLIDERS AND 3 ROLLERS what are the differences of performance?
3 20 gr sliders and 3 15 gr rollers
3 19 gr sliders and 3 15 g rrollers
3 20 gr sliders and 3 16 gr rollers
3 19 gr sliders and 3 16 gr rollers

thank you very much
Robert

[Mario]

I also like to know the outcome of this.

in this mix set up:3 DR PULLEY SLIDERS AND 3 ROLLERS what are the differences of performance?
3 20 gr sliders and 3 15 gr rollers
3 19 gr sliders and 3 15 g rrollers
3 20 gr sliders and 3 16 gr rollers
3 19 gr sliders and 3 16 gr rollers

thank you very much
Robert

[robertinino]

hi Mario
waiting for Bred reply..........
robert

[robertinino]

hi Mario,
did you enjoy your new forza?
I want try this combination 3x 20 gr dr pulley . 3x 16 gr rollers
and you what cobination did you decided? 3x19 and 3x16?

ciao R

[Mario]

Hi Robert,

Yes I am enjoying my Forza very much :-)

I first wait for the 1000km service before I change anything, but for now I am thinking of 19g sliders and 16g rollers.

[img][IMG]http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/14763647/800/Forza-300/20150726-125244.jpg[/img]

[Mario]

Fixt the link,

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/147 ... 125244.jpg

[robertinino]

mario why did you choose 3x19 sliders and 3x16 rollers and not 3x20 sliders and 3x 15 rollers as suggested from Bred?
Are you able to do the job yourself?
beautiful your forza!!

ciao R

[Mario]

Hi Robert,

Lighter sliders will give you a little more bottom end.

I think the final mix for the Forza will be 19 or 20 gram sliders with 14 -16 gram rollers...
a little bias towards lighter for more bottom end and a little bias towards heavier for more top end.

I think it's a easy job with the right tools.

Greetings,

Mario

[BRed]

Hello all:
Just got back from a road trip and have been off the grid for several days.


On the 20G 24x18 sliders, when using all 6 of them, they drop the shiftpoint by about 300 revs....
5500rpm instead of the classic 5800rpm shiftpoint you usually see with 23x18, regardless of how much they weigh. They raise the gearing (taller) and they definitely bump fuel mileage upwards.

But, I think they will work well in a combination on the Forza, since it makes more power.

On the roller to slider weight ratio, it sounds like you guys are on the right track....
reducing the weight of the sliders will increase the rpm of the shiftpoint, giving faster acceleration.
increasing the weight of the rollers will allow for slightly higher top end.
The more total weight you run, the faster the CVT moves into high gear.

Remember that I'm tuning for a flat rpm curve from 0-50.

when tuning for the shape of the rpm curve, you want to see the tachometer move in small increments....
you don't want to see a loss of more than 300-400 rpm DURING the upshift.....
the less fluctuation in the tach needle (the flatter the curve), the better your results will be.
this is where you juggle the ratio of slider weight to roller weight.


to Oyabun, I've never tuned a PCX but if I were going to test a mixed weight combination without the aid of a tuning computer, I would try this:
3 sliders that are 1 gram lighter than the stock weights in the PCX
w/ 3 rollers that are 2-3 grams lighter than your choice of sliders.

I think that will give you a good starting point and I'm interested in hearing your results!

[Oyabun]

Thanks Ed,
I'll give it a try. Actually I just started to put together an opensorce HW based data acquisition system (have not decided yet on RasPi or Arduino yet) to collect baseline data for tuning.
Would like to install a Big Bore kit also and need TPS, Coolant, RPM and O2 anyway adding a speed sensor yhold make sense. I have other projects running also so it won't happen overnight.
I'll keep you posted.

[robertinino]

hi Ed how are you?
thank you very much for everything.........
I 'll tryy this new combination: 19 sliders - 15 rollers do you think is a good far a flat rpm curve? I would be tempted to do like Mario 19 sliders- 16 rollers..... best acceleration, best top end. There is lot of difference from 19 - 15... and about flat curve?

ciao Ed

[robertinino]

Ed another question:
24x18 sliders drow the shiftpoint of 300 rev, why bump up fuel mileage if the rev is down?
What is the right weight combination of 24x18 sliders and rollers?
Do you think is better combination that 23x18? or are you still sperimenting.........

ciaoo

[BRed]

What I meant is that taller gearing increased fuel mileage (not fuel consumption).

19G sliders w/16G roller gave a shiftpoint and initial curve of 6400rpm on the Big Ruckus...
it will outrun a stock Forza in the 1/4 mile (17 seconds @ 76mph)

20G sliders w/15G rollers are showing a shiftpoint and initial curve of ~6300 rpm, which seems to be the "sweet spot" on the Forza.... very close to peak torque!
It may be slightly below that rpm?


With that combo, the Forza will outrun the tuned BR...just barely!

But it still gets 67mpg at 70mph....the tuned BR (with a rejetted carb) won't come close to that fuel mileage.


on the Helix sliders (2418), I like what they can do for a CVT but I haven't found the right mix for them .....yet!