The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Been a while since anyone mentioned so since many new scooter riders I thought to tell the hellish experience of rolling off a steep grade while not having the CVT engaged. Here is the unlikely scenario but I managed to do it.

Note how your scooter disengages the clutch under 9 mph and you are coasting at that point.
I managed to COAST off a very steep grade locally and free wheel downhill gusting up to dangerous speeds for the curves.

At that point you realize bumping the throttle would aggressively engage the clutch and the rear wheel could to get squirrelly.
The brakes feel like you shut the engine off in a car and now you have no power because you will be surprised how much of our stopping ability is engine braking assisted.

So without engine braking and radically different brake lever response it's a starting moment to say the least in the mist of a downhill free fall ride with a sharp curve ahead.

I survived it, and then did it over and over again until it didn't scare me anymore but I think it good to be aware the first time and speed up over 9 mph when going off a cliff having the engine to assist your brakes as a new rider Video of the road today, and reenactment of a COASTING PCX on a very steep grade..... FUN!!!

Brakes have always felt fine to me, even when freewheeling. I live on a 7-8% gradient so often experience this when setting off. Front brake is more than powerful to stop me flying down the road.

WoooooooHooooooooo! FUN... it's something to do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1W_P3jpg5A

Sorry too chicken to go brakes only....
goosed it, engaged clutch, tire slipped a little then all was well made the 90 at the bottom

Thats a good technical video.. certainly a positive and informative learning tool for all especially the new PCX riders. Going down hill and doing curves is the most fun with a scoot , but can be challenging and dangerous . Good information.

At some point you either have to throttle up and risk losing the rear tires grip or muscle the brakes as they will be harder than normal. I was unable to muster the courage to not throttle up in the moment of truth. To continue to coast on brakes only is very unnerving, feels like you'll lose the front end because you are pulling so hard to slow down.

You'll never need to have to make this decision mid way down if you speed up before heading down keeping above 9 mph all the way down, no issue, no crash today

This is near me. This is where you can test your bike REAL good down hill.

Enjoy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QrXQGeJLSA

I've got a HD clutch now with red springs, so it's probably a bit more than 9mph for me.
But my area is loaded with hills so I tend to ride the brake against the throttle for a tad too get the clutch to engage for a descent.
I've ridden in the mountains a couple of times when I had the heavy springs in the stock clutch, and it was still ok.

Sorry too chicken to go brakes only....

Big THANK YOU for bringing up this topic and the video presentation. Coming off a 49cc I'll be taking on more hill sections with the PCX and am now more aware of the parameters of that free wheeling characteristic in "Scooterland". Around town (and on the shoreline in general) it's quite flat in most places so that hidden danger doesn't become apparent until you have that "Talk to Me Goose" moment.

The video reminded me of the first time I did Mt. Greylock in MA (seems long ago now) on a motorcycle and learned that you keep the speed down and never shift over 2nd and use the brakes wisely so as to avoid overheating them. That lesson carried me through touring the Colorado Rockies back in the '70s and Mt. Washington in NH a few times. Engine braking is key.

If it's a weekend and there are visitors to the above mentioned places it's almost an absolutely certainty you'll smell burning brakes from the foot of the hills on up. Sad to say some people just don't get it or have never been informed.

Deals Gap is a place I'd like to do on a motorcycle but am not sure if I've got the Chutzpah to do that kind of touring distance anymore. I've been on Rt. 40 though and through Asheville. Did some of the Blue Ridge Parkway in a car.

But getting back to scooters I didn't realize how that freewheeling thing can come out of nowhere. I'll remember to give it a shot of throttle on a long downhill to keep the clutch engaged and the 9MPH threshold.

In case you wondered what a "Talk to Me Goose" moment is. A quote from the movie Top Gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeXi2Lf9gxA

Holy Cow!

PCX150Rider wrote:But getting back to scooters I didn't realize how that freewheeling thing can come out of nowhere. I'll remember to give it a shot of throttle on a long downhill to keep the clutch engaged and the 9MPH threshold.

I just had a thought when you say "threshold" i think I will explore this once more and this time come off the top engaged and then brake to below 9 mph to see if the clutch drops out and I become a runaway. I suspect I will need to throttle up which doesn't come natural in that situation let me tell you. Throttling up is the last thing on your mind Trivial stuff for a slow day, I suspect no different than if I pulled the clutch on the Buell going down that hill, but who would do that.

Tried to stay awake last night to entirely watch this great video but fell short. . ..

The person who did this also has an edited version with music (shorter). The raw footage version just captures the actual sounds on the rides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpsU4Tc_krc

I think he's mastered the downhill freewheeling issues by using the appropriate throttle input at key points in the elevation changes. . .quite seamless actually. You don't have to watch the whole video to get the idea (although it's all good) but by listening to the engine on the mountain top rides it sounds like he's on the gas briefly just enough to engage the clutch and doesn't appear to be struggling with the brakes.

If I hadn't been informed about methods to counteract the freewheeling aspects of the CVTs I would've never noticed how this individual was able to negotiate these long hills and elevation changes without smoking the brakes.

Great scenery and takes you to places both familiar and far reaching where tour buses are rarely seen.

lookie what I did

homie wrote:WoooooooHooooooooo! FUN... it's something to do

>>> https://www.facebook.com/kenneth.f.cava ... 9269507909

Sorry too chicken to go brakes only....
goosed it, tire slipped a little (?) then all was well made the 90 at the bottom

Bringing up this thread again.

Was at a local park today with a great view and a bit of a steep access road. Noticed on the way down that since I was already going so slow the PCX was free-wheeling and as I was gaining momentum I was totally relying on the brakes. No big deal, but I remembered this thread so gave the throttle a slight "blip" and as soon as the clutch engaged the engine braking took effect and it was a much more controlled descent.

That being said I went to another park in town that has a much longer steep access road to try it again in a more serious situation. I found that having started off at a level point of the road at the top of the hill with the clutch engaged it seemed to remain engaged as I progressed down the hill. I used the brakes as needed. Just for the heck of it about half way down the incline I gave the PCX a little throttle to see if the clutch was still engaged and indeed it was. It would only drop out of engagement when I was coming to a complete stop at the next intersection.

A good topic to bring up as a lot of new riders will be on CVT autos and may well encounter similar situations.

Personally, my response would be not to take an iron grip on the brakes to try to slow down but to use the grab-release-grab technique that slows the bike more rapidly.

The technique is based upon the fact that the greatest effect of the brakes is when they are applied. So, applying them, releasing quickly, applying them again, releasing quickly, and repeating this process provides the most efficient slowing process.

It's not applicable to every situation and if you have an ABS equipped auto it may not be necessary (ie the ABS may be better at it than you are.) You would certainly have to re-calibrate a response on loose surfaces, but that's true for most slowing techniques.

PS: I watched it several times to hear your scooter going up the hill. I'm weird!

Yep, sorry I chickened out and goosed up 3/4 way down that hill. The problem is when you don't have the engine braking in the mix you are working the levers in a way I got spooked. Feels like the tires will lock and slip out from under you in a turn. I gave up trying to go all the way down and thru the last turn without the engine engaged.

It's a white knuckle moment for a first time scooter rider. Becareful out there people

I have CBS system and when going down a step grade I stay on the left lever(CBS) and pulse the right (front) to maintain control.Pressure on both is modulated to keep speed under control w/o lock up.In effect I am simulating ABS but doing it manually.

easyrider wrote:In effect I am simulating ABS but doing it manually.

Yup! That's what the technique I posted is doing. This describes that in a nutshell.

lillypinkjenny wrote:

easyrider wrote:In effect I am simulating ABS but doing it manually.

Yup! That's what the technique I posted is doing. This describes that in a nutshell.

Yes, you did describe that as your method as well. Great minds think alike.. LOL...

A good one to Bump!
Hooligan's, you might want to consider clicking the "Bookmark" button (top left) as a quick reference to this topic. You can print it as well.

homie, yer Smart! Glad you "chickened out." There's no need to harm yourself in a "how-to show" for us.
Appreciate your dedication, but we still wants cha around (ya know, for the Next one

Practice makes perfect (?) well, close enough. Keep a little throttle (above 8-9mph) going down grade and you'll be fine (engine braking feels/is cool). When using brakes, I use my left brake lever and follow it almost immediately with the right lever = both applied.

easyrider wrote:

lillypinkjenny wrote:

easyrider wrote:In effect I am simulating ABS but doing it manually.

Yup! That's what the technique I posted is doing. This describes that in a nutshell.

Yes, you did describe that as your method as well. Great minds think alike.. LOL...

... or both as daft as each other ... one of the two anyways!