The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Folks, what are the supposed negative effects of not breaking an engine in gently? Does it negatively effect the performance of the engine (lower top speed, worse acceleration, etc.)? Reduce the engine's lifespan? Make catastrophic failures more likely? What actually ARE the negatives?

Wouldn't worry the pcx has a modern day engine, they don't really need running in as such any more.

I wouldn't keep it full throttle for hours at a time quiet yet but after a few 100 miles u can ride it how u like and it will be fine until you run out of fuel. The pcx has a rather low Rev limiter it's hard to thrash it.

Some of the negatives might be---- Higher than normal oil consumption. Permanent engine vibration or possibly total engine failure. My Honda mechanic told me that but he also said for the first 50 miles don't do full throttle take off's and not run at fastest speed. After that ride as normal.

True enough that the PCX engine will not suffer the catastrophic failures associated with aggressive break-in to which pre 2000 engines were prone. But even that was nowhere near universal.
That said; ALL metals subject to heating / cooling cycles should be seasoned when new to better cope with long periods of stress. The elasticity of the metal will be less prone to molecular debonding if those bonds are tempered over a long timeframe. The bonding occurs at various and multiple temperatures, that is why we are instructed during break-in to vary the speed for the first several hundred miles - much longer in my personal opinion. Some engines - irregardless of the maker's literature - are notorious for using oil for up to 20k miles or more. Then, consumption suddenly ceasing. Some engines - not.
The PCX engine is not, just for example, a Rotax aircraft engine; designed to run at 80% RPM until TBO. Yet that is what we do to them. Treat your new engine like you would a virgin and she will be faithful. Do it not, and she will be contentious.

Huh, interesting.

Sadly, I'm one of those who lacks the patience to baby the thing at the beginning. We'll see if it comes back to bite me.

My wife and I bought brand new pendant 2014 Metropolitans -- mine blue, hers orange. THAT would have been the perfect time to put things to the test, if one of us had broken his/hers in gently while the other rammed it from the beginning. We'd have been able to see whether, 600 miles in, they behaved at all differently. Oh well....

I always break my engines in hard. No problems. I worked at Ford dealerships for 25 years. When I test drove the new cars after prep I would run them hard. The mustang gt got a real hard drive. Not one car came back with engine problems. We are talking about 2-3000 cars over 25 years of time.

typhon2222 wrote: ...We'd have been able to see whether, 600 miles in, they behaved at all differently. Oh well....

My considerations were more toward the longevity of the engine, as that appeared to be the OP's main thrust - while performance was mentioned once as opposed to negations.
Many anecdotes can be had of a driver beating the living crap out of a new engine with no repercussions. But, what was his length of ownership and what of the decades hence for subsequent owners?
Little or no empirical evidence exists to render a definitive answer. Caution is wiser here than abuse.

pcx man wrote:I always break my engines in hard. No problems. I worked at Ford dealerships for 25 years. When I test drove the new cars after prep I would run them hard. The mustang gt got a real hard drive. Not one car came back with engine problems. We are talking about 2-3000 cars over 25 years of time.

As above, you have no way of knowing the detriments of your actions upon vehicles for which you would not bear the responsibility of ownership. Further, I would posit that had most (but not all) buyers known that their purchases had been subject to such a thrashing by an infantile jerk, they would have gone elsewhere.

300 miles.
What is that -? A handful of days riding your new scooter?
The boys that built your engine ask you to take it easy for 300 miles.
Hmmm, fortunately modern engines ( except china junk) are built to survive abuse. Prospering and surviving are 2 different things, obviously.
But you know all this. ..and it IS your $ - to spend anyway you choose
Fish

fish wrote:300 miles.
What is that -? A handful of days riding your new scooter?

I hear ya. But it also depends a bit on the scoot.

If the listed break-in period for a Metro is 600 miles..... That would be 20 hours of riding at 30 MPH, or 30 hours of riding at 20 MPH (a more realistic average speed for some urban traffic). For a commuting vehicle used for 5- and 10-minute urban journeys, it could easily take half a year to rack up that mileage, even with daily use. That's a long time to be avoiding all fast starts, all fast stops, and all WOT. Clearly I lack the patience (and I'm not proud of that).

I'm in agreement, "Take it Easy"

WhiteNoise wrote:I'm in agreement, "Take it Easy"

Ohhhhh.....WhiteNoise....
Geez buddy; The Eagles...?
Did ja have ta use The Eagles??? At least you're in the right era for humankind's music Renaissance. But wouldn't Pointer Sister's Slow Hand have been just as good?
¶ ♫ "I wanna man with a slow hand. I wanna lova with an EASY touch. I want somebody who can take some time. Not come and go in a heated rush. ¶♫
Did you not see The Big Lebowski?

I wrote ( I always break my engines in hard. No problems. I worked at Ford dealerships for 25 years. When I test drove the new cars after prep I would run them hard. The mustang gt got a real hard drive. Not one car came back with engine problems. We are talking about 2-3000 cars over 25 years of time.)
Most of the buyers of these cars were life long customers. I worked on their cars for years and well over 100,000 miles. As I said no problems. I also did this to my own new cars (6) in total and counting. Over 100,000 miles on each, no problems. I have also done this to my motorcycles. I have had 5 new bikes over the years, thousands of miles no problems. I am not talking about long full throttle runs. I am talking about full throttle on take off and short runs. This is what has worked for me.

Here is a web site that talks about what I believe and live by on break-in. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm As a ASE certified mechanic for more than 40 years I think I know what I am talking about. Everyone will have their own thoughts on this, no rights or wrongs.

I hear nowadays that one should just drive or ride nearly as hard as what they plan to do. The break in period used to be necessary back in the days but I think it's become subjective enough that they can just view the manufacturer's recommendation as just that, a recommendation.

The content in the link pcx man posted is compelling. I wonder in reality how you would apply it in a CVT scooter?

pcx man wrote:Everyone will have their own thoughts on this, no rights or wrongs.

+1

I drove my new PCX normally from day one and don't expect any problems for years.

Then again, I don't ride hard and have always been easy on my vehicles. I usually keep my cars for 4 - 5 years and have never replaced a set of brake pads on any of them or had any major mechanical problems, or excessive engine wear.

pcx man wrote: 2-3000 cars over 25 years...Not one car came back with engine problems.

God loves you brother. And he especially loves that Ford dealership, because it is a statistical impossibility for 3000 cars over 25 years to have zero drivetrain failures during that period. It's impossible. May I have the name of that dealership please? Because I would like to query their records. Maybe then pass them on to Hendrick Motorsports because believe me they want to know the secret.

I am 4/5 through my 68 hour work cycle and have neither the time nor energy tonight to contribute to this pile.
Maybe next week.

Were it true that we should beat a new engine....
why the heck is there such a thing as a break-in period?????!!!

I would say break it in, but also let it break YOU in. It wouldn't be unwise to take it slow and get used to how the PCX handles before shooting down the freeway, as you might encounter an unpleasant surprise going on/off a sharp turning ramp without getting used to how it corners.

Tribpreper wrote:

pcx man wrote: 2-3000 cars over 25 years...Not one car came back with engine problems.

God loves you brother. And he especially loves that Ford dealership, because it is a statistical impossibility for 3000 cars over 25 years to have zero drivetrain failures during that period. It's impossible. May I have the name of that dealership please? Because I would like to query their records. Maybe then pass them on to Hendrick Motorsports because believe me they want to know the secret.

I am 4/5 through my 68 hour work cycle and have neither the time nor energy tonight to contribute to this pile.
Maybe next week.

Were it true that we should beat a new engine....
why the heck is there such a thing as a break-in period?????!!!

10 new cars per month is a dealership....

you you wrote:10 new cars per month is a dealership....

Hmmm....darn good question...
Actually at the first given quantity; 6.66 per month. At the second given quantity (a 50% variance) = 10 cars sold per month. Total average cars sold during period = 8.33.
Average new car price in 1985 was $9005. In 2010; $29,217. Average new car margin is 6%-9%.
Even assuming; 1 receptionist, 1 closer, 1 mechanic, our prep guy, owner profit, dealership P/L, taxes, maintenance, insurance, inventory, etc....
That dealership could not survive without regular cash infusions.
Even if we eliminate the mechanic's pay (I mean, nothing ever breaks; right?), no way...
I don't know.... Maybe the dealership was mainly a used car seller and sold new cars on the side...

I'm done with this thread.