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Variator weights
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:01 pm
by waspmike
What is the current wisdom on reducing the weights and/or Dr. Pulley
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:30 pm
by davenowherejones
Personally, I think it's a lot of mucking around that does not really make a hell of a difference.
But some people think 2% is a big gain and will spend huge amounts to do it.
Just my own personal opinion. The 49cc fanatics do this best.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:54 am
by Gil
I would recommend the 13 gram Dr. Pulley weights, they are a good balance in performance and and comfortable riding. At lower vehicle speeds the engine won't be at an excessive high and loud RPM range, like the 12 gram Dr. Pulley weights.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:07 am
by davenowherejones
Are we talking Forza or PCX?
This is the Forza 300 group.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:38 am
by Gil
davenowherejones wrote:Are we talking Forza or PCX?
This is the Forza 300 group.
looks like my edit didn't save, I was mistaken. I thought it was the PCX group.
Gil
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:27 pm
by easyrider
davenowherejones wrote:Personally, I think it's a lot of mucking around that does not really make a hell of a difference.
But some people think 2% is a big gain and will spend huge amounts to do it.
I agree!!
Just my own personal opinion. The 49cc fanatics do this best.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:53 pm
by Conelite
davenowherejones wrote:
Just my own personal opinion. The 49cc fanatics do this best.
This is True. I spend 10 years tuning Ruckus bikes..
As for the PCX, I run 13g and 12.5g mixed weights and have good acceleration and 74mph top speed. I plan eventually to start shaving weights so get the RPMS higher while accelerating. They dont creep into the 8k range until around 50mph which is late IMO.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:00 pm
by Jge64
Changing weights on the smaller cc bikes like the 50-150cc definitely can help by moving the power band lower so you get better take off speed. It’s certainly not as necessary and the results are not as apparent on the Forza because at 300 cc you have good power throughout the band stock, and there is less need to add new weights. I added variator weights to my Xmax 300, just cause I like to tinker, and there was nowhere near the difference that there was when I put them on my 150 PCX.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:37 pm
by E. Foster Salsbury
waspmike wrote:What is the current wisdom on reducing the weights and/or Dr. Pulley
Not current but a lot of wisdom here...
https://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php? ... lit=tuning
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:40 pm
by Conelite
Jge64 wrote:Changing weights on the smaller cc bikes like the 50-150cc definitely can help by moving the power band lower so you get better take off speed. It’s certainly not as necessary and the results are not as apparent on the Forza because at 300 cc you have good power throughout the band stock, and there is less need to add new weights. I added variator weights to my Xmax 300, just cause I like to tinker, and there was nowhere near the difference that there was when I put them on my 150 PCX.
Yes Bigger displacement, the less affect small changes in weights have.
On my 49cc Ruckus I shave 0.10g at a time.
On my PCX I shave 0.5-1.0G at a time.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:04 am
by Austins
Friend of mine changed 3 of his rollers to lighter ones on his Yamaha Aerox and kept other 3 as the stock. He was told this way he gets some more acceleration but does not loose much of the top end speed. He is happy with it, but of course not a big change overall...
I will have to get Honda to open the whole variator plates/rollers and final drive for inspection and clean so may be try this and see - I will ask what the mechanics at Honda think....(here in Thailand they do a lot of scooter tuning, I heard they also change ECU settings and so on), there is also taller variator plates for Forza from Malossi but I think you have to buy their whole kit.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:27 am
by Austins
I asked Honda guy, pretty useless, he said they don't supply a lighter weight rollers, only stock rollers. Generally he showed no interest at all at any performance enhancing queries, either ECU, variator plates, or stiffer contra/torque spring of the clutch, answer always was typical Thai phrase " No hab !"...
I heard Dr. Pulley (sliders) or Tech Pulley (flying rollers) are also available, but never seen anyone offer those in Thailand, have to be shipped in at high cost I guess....
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:09 am
by CamboForza
I'll post here as people will probably see this before the main thread.
On the Forza it takes under 30 mins to change them out. If you have power tools, it would take 15mins.
I have tried 17g and 19g and found the 19g to be the best for me.
They are cheap, I paid about $50 AUD for both sets delivered direct from Dr Pulley in Taiwan.
Brings my take off from 6000rpm to 6500rpm+ and the bike is much more responsive.
Top Speed is still the same.
So for around $50 and half an hours time, you can unleash more performance.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:19 am
by davenowherejones
But I bet fuel used goes up.
No free lunch.
Not worth the time involved.
Trivial improvement.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 am
by Austins
It turns out Xmax has exact size rollers and compatible with Forza..., but has 17g as oppose to 21g of Forza.
So I walked into a local Yamaha shop and bought 3 rollers of 17g Xmax, really cheap here, I think equivalent of US$3 each...!
The mechanic put alternative 3x 21g and 3x 17g for me, so average 19g now.... It revs a bit higher at every km/h, I think before the clutch would engage at 2500rpm, now around 3000rpm and so on. I can feel a bit more acceleration but lost top end, as expected. Now about 134kph as oppose to 138kph, well, this depends on a lot of conditions and wind..., and if I had a big lunch...! lol
And also I have higher fuel consumption, I used to have 29 or 30km/l, now more 27 or 28km/l..., again as expected...
Should try Dr. Pulleys one of these days...
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:41 am
by CamboForza
davenowherejones wrote:But I bet fuel used goes up.
No free lunch.
Not worth the time involved.
Trivial improvement.
Yeah you said that before...
It takes 20 minutes to swap them out or even better, swap them out during a service while cleaning the variator.
The improvement isn't trivial at all, it really frees up the engine and it is much more responsive, especially when going from 60-80km/h to overtake.
I haven't noticed any change in fuel consumption and I have three years of records.
It's cheap and easy to do and if you want to go back to stock, it takes 20 minutes to swap the original rollers back.
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:02 am
by ghmpm
I installed DR Pulley sliders on my Silver Wing 600 and saw little improvement. A bit less vibration perhaps but on a 600 cc scoot... DR selling point is they last MUCH longer than Honda rollers supposedly. At nearly 15 K my rollers did not need replacing so probably could have got 30K out of the stock with ease. The other thing is the DR sliders cost me nearly $60 USD and the stock rollers from Honda are around $20.00. Are they worth it? Guess that is up to the individual, personally I don't think so.
Now on a smaller bike like the Forza, who knows?
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:30 am
by mtnbiker5
I installed a Malossi Kit with 12g rollers, jumps to 7000 rpm instantly and 0-60mph is insane but as stated really tops out around 75 mph ad is humming at 7500 rpm gas mileage has tanked and God forbid you see a head wind on the freeway....
Im going to reinstall 3 stock 21g and 3 18g rollers and see how that does.. most of my riding is at 55-80 mph
Re: Variator weights
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:42 am
by BRed
A follow up question on new Xmax 300 mentioned above...
(and BTW, thanks for the confirmation that it uses standard 23x18 rollers!)
My question is...does it also use a standard CN-250 type clutch, as far as the center hole mounting is concerned.
I saw from pictures the older Xmax used 5 flyweight arms?
I also just bought a 2023 Xmax and it still surprises me.
Thanks for any info.
BRed