The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

pattomike wrote:lean to the right, and apply DOWNWARD pressure on the right handlebar.

That is correct, barely a noticeable technique on such a light bike but most certainly the way to corner on the Buells. It automatically shifts your body position climbing up on the high side of faster bikes in the turns. Not exaggerated, just instinctive as the body is no longer inline with the bike, as if you are climbing up on the high side of the saddle. Thus why I don't care for a cradled seat You feel more in control and you put the bike into a more aggressive bank. Not for everyone but part of the thrill for those you ride for it... plus your chicken strips always look great!

You should lose the C-stand before you bite it

Disregard that... its all wrong I think that's what it feels like to me and not actually whats happening. Just don't crash. I used to post the member crash list in my signature but it got so long and depressing.

On the scooter is always on the safe side when doing a sharp turn (90 degrees or more). Before you turn always evaluate the quality of the surface, to avoid rocks, sand, water and other things. Before turning smoothly reduce the speed to 40km/h (25 mph) if the road gravel, almost to zero, and then evenly at the maximum possible radius of turn and only after turning up the speed. It is better to pass a turtle, than lying in hospital.

homie wrote:Disregard that... its all wrong I think that's what it feels like to me and not actually whats happening. Just don't crash. I used to post the member crash list in my signature but it got so long and depressing.

I like to get my lean on in turns too. But I'm a lot more careful these days, since wrecking and breaking my leg in 3 places back in '09. Turns were marked 35 mph. I found that I was barely getting any lean at 35 or 40. 55 was more like it. But then, wouldn't you know it, there was a turn that really couldn't be taken past 50 at the top of a blind hill. I was at full lean, dragging my foot pegs hard. Wasn't making it, so leaned further, which took weight off the contact patch, and I went down with my leg under the bike. My toe caught the pavement, which twisted the foot around backwards and caused a spiral fracture, like skiers have. Ouch.

Anyway, the moral of that story is/are:

- Always leave some tolerance for the unexpected. Roads aren't as well-kept as race tracks. This can be gravel, leaves, dirt, cager oncoming in your lane, animals, potholes, etc. Remember that we only have two very small contact patches, and we need both of them working all the time. Not like a car, where we have four big ones, and if one tires hits some gravel, it's not necessarily game over.

- Never over-drive your sight line. Sometimes that means going slower than you'd like through the turns.

I haven't leaned far enough to scrape anything yet, but I have good cornering technique: lean my body down away from the scooter's line first, so the bike's lean angle isn't as great for a given corner speed. Most cars can't keep up with me though. I don't put my legs out though; that's a little too racy for me.

Here's a reminder of that thread, need I start tracking this again?
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... last+crash

50 riders down since late 2012 to November 2016
Minor injuries, broken limbs, concussions. Lots of busted up bikes, many totaled... No confirmed fatalities.

Crash Survivors: DrewJW- johnL/twice- j.d.b.- Frantisek- artiglieri- RoadDog- RichyP- triaxor- db22- jcpeden- nbuss14- KonyaB- dog64bull- flyingzonker/twice- averzun3- honkerman/twice- Branyers14- novapersona- xixon- Boloney- chigman- wangsuda- Seph/twice- Mel46 & wife- Glassman- Prehistoric_Dog- scudder- Seph- dergav- JohnL- flyingzonker- Mr Elbows- assslan- adrianwo- Tom192- gohjohan- jojo87- Ben Lee- McGoff- wojtek_pl- andyscooter- Valiant- renlik- logepoge1- katschamne- hls158- RoederChan- ?

homie wrote:Here's a reminder of that thread, need I start tracking this again?
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... last+crash

50 riders down since late 2012 to November 2016
Minor injuries, broken limbs, concussions. Lots of busted up bikes, many totaled... No confirmed fatalities.

Crash Survivors: DrewJW- johnL/twice- j.d.b.- Frantisek- artiglieri- RoadDog- RichyP- triaxor- db22- jcpeden- nbuss14- KonyaB- dog64bull- flyingzonker/twice- averzun3- honkerman/twice- Branyers14- novapersona- xixon- Boloney- chigman- wangsuda- Seph/twice- Mel46 & wife- Glassman- Prehistoric_Dog- scudder- Seph- dergav- JohnL- flyingzonker- Mr Elbows- assslan- adrianwo- Tom192- gohjohan- jojo87- Ben Lee- McGoff- wojtek_pl- andyscooter- Valiant- renlik- logepoge1- katschamne- hls158- RoederChan- ?

But many more didn't crash.


Some adrenlyn fuelled 9hp race junkies around at the moment..

Smaug wrote:Turns were marked 35 mph. I found that I was barely getting any lean at 35 or 40. 55 was more like it.

I have good cornering technique: lean my body down away from the scooter's line first, so the bike's lean angle isn't as great for a given corner speed.

I don't understand the what you are describing. Turns were marked 35 MPH? Do you mean the speed limit signs? You weren't getting any lean at the speed limit so you did 20MPH over the speed limit to get lean?

I don't understand your cornering technique of leaning your body away from scooter's line. Do you mean if you are making a right turn, you lean left first, and then lean right?

I want to clarify, when I said I like to hit the corners hard, I am not talking about curvy roads. I am talking about 90 degree right-hand and left-hand turns; the type which you might find in town. I approach them fast, and zip around them like a show-off.

I am sorry about that accident. I have never had an accident on a motorcycle. I haven't ridden a ton, but I have owned 5 bikes, all of them different types (sport bike, cruiser, dual sport, and two scooters). I suppose I have been lucky because I have never taken any type of training.

you you wrote:

homie wrote:Here's a reminder of that thread, need I start tracking this again?
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... last+crash

50 riders down since late 2012 to November 2016
Minor injuries, broken limbs, concussions. Lots of busted up bikes, many totaled... No confirmed fatalities.

Crash Survivors: DrewJW- johnL/twice- j.d.b.- Frantisek- artiglieri- RoadDog- RichyP- triaxor- db22- jcpeden- nbuss14- KonyaB- dog64bull- flyingzonker/twice- averzun3- honkerman/twice- Branyers14- novapersona- xixon- Boloney- chigman- wangsuda- Seph/twice- Mel46 & wife- Glassman- Prehistoric_Dog- scudder- Seph- dergav- JohnL- flyingzonker- Mr Elbows- assslan- adrianwo- Tom192- gohjohan- jojo87- Ben Lee- McGoff- wojtek_pl- andyscooter- Valiant- renlik- logepoge1- katschamne- hls158- RoederChan- ?

But many more didn't crash.


Some adrenlyn fuelled 9hp race junkies around at the moment..

I would love to read the circumstances of each and every one. The explanations of how a wreck occurred are always interested.

pattomike wrote:I would love to read the circumstances of each and every one. The explanations of how a wreck occurred are always interested.

Stick around, were having a great run right now so don't be that guy. In the mean time Mel likes to tell his story, even made the evening news.

pattomike wrote: I don't understand the what you are describing. Turns were marked 35 MPH? Do you mean the speed limit signs?

No, the reduced speed signs for the turns. Speed limit was 45, I think.

You weren't getting any lean at the speed limit so you did 20MPH over the speed limit to get lean?

yes, at least for the turns.

I don't understand your cornering technique of leaning your body away from scooter's line. Do you mean if you are making a right turn, you lean left first, and then lean right?

I mean if I'm turning right, I lean my body down even lower than the bike is leaning.

Smaug wrote:

pattomike wrote: I don't understand the what you are describing. Turns were marked 35 MPH? Do you mean the speed limit signs?

No, the reduced speed signs for the turns. Speed limit was 45, I think.

You weren't getting any lean at the speed limit so you did 20MPH over the speed limit to get lean?

yes, at least for the turns.

I don't understand your cornering technique of leaning your body away from scooter's line. Do you mean if you are making a right turn, you lean left first, and then lean right?

I mean if I'm turning right, I lean my body down even lower than the bike is leaning.

You sound much more experienced at cornering than I am. Since discovering counter steering, I have been practicing it, but that means I am taking corners slower now. On right turns, I pull on the left hand bar. I don't really know what I was doing previously when I reported to the forum that I was cornering fast and furious. I was just doing what came naturally, whatever that is. I think I might have been leaning to the right, and pulling on the right handle bar, which on right hand turns.

pattomike wrote:somewhere on this PCX forum I was introduced to the idea of counter steering on corners. It was a totally alien concept to me. I never heard of it. I don't know if I am doing this counter steering technique around corners instinctively and automatically. I don't think I am. I was riding today and going fast around corners because that's how I roll and I was trying to sorta pay attention to my mechanics and the only thing I noticed was that on right hand turns, for example, I lean to the right, and applied DOWNWARD pressure on the right handlebar.

I wrote an article on counter-steering for my motorcycle tips and tricks to stay alive Facebook blog - you might find it interesting (or you might not!)

https://www.facebook.com/MotorcycleTips ... 6707480860

Main blog at ...

https://www.facebook.com/MotorcycleTips ... oStayAlive

With regards to throwing the bike into corners etc -- I'd like to say a few words in all seriousness; I know what you mean. I've done it myself. I still do it myself. I have to resist the temptation to do it more often. That's the "full disclosure bit". Having said that, I also need to say that it can turn from "fun" to "skin grafts" and "surgery to put plates and screws into broken bones" in the blink of an eye. There are just so many ways to get hurt on a motorbike ... and the only chance we have is to be on our "A game" each and every time we ride - especially with regards to things like following distance, visibility, anticipation of failure to give way, and cornering safety margin.

Counter-steering changes the bike lean angle much faster than a change of rider position/weight ... but it usually doesn't change the trajectory much because our bodies move in the opposite direction to maintain equilibrium. Or to put that another way, if you're in a turn and you're not going to make it then the only thing that's going to tighten your radius is rolling off the throttle and (if necessary) applying some brake. Counter-steering is very useful for abruptly changing the direction of a heavy bike in a hurry - like if a brick suddenly appears between the rear tyres of the car in front that you really shouldn't have been that close to. Braking in a corner (trail braking) is a hotly debated topic in riding circles - many say "don't do it" and "do your braking before the corner" - the reality is that you CAN brake in a corner but it loads up the tyre more, and takes you closer to losing grip where VERY bad things happen if it's the front type of a motorbike. So to put that another way - the harder you're cornering, the less you're able to brake without coming off. And nobody ever regretted having too much of a safety margin. The other thing to keep in mind is that a flat tyre in a high-speed / loaded-up turn can make for a very bad experience. How often does that happen? Well I've have 4 flat tyres in 2 years - 3 let go without warning (one at night - approaching a roundabout - in the rain - with a pillion on the back - and I'll tell you now it's one of the worst feelings you can imagine. Would hate to have that happen in a high-speed corner).

Hope this helps

PS: MotoGP legend Mick Doohan made a great 30 second video I like to watch when I get too cocky ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWHHEnZGw

There's another floating around showin the aftermath of a crash at 300 km/hr on the road on a bike -- but I won't link to it because it's just a little too sobering and definitely NSFW.

If you drive like that with more power you will loose the rear wheel mid corner and crashyour scooter/bike

I worry about myself sometimes because I really like to hit the corners hard. I will come up to them fast, and then break, and then gun it again 1/2 to 3/4 through the turn.

I've been riding for 50 yrs, everything from Norton, Triumph, BSA, old shifty 2 stroke Vespas, dirt bikes, you name it. I basically ride to both 1) enjoy the trip and also 2) get home without piling up another bike and getting busted up again. To me, if a person wants to learn how to slide thru turns and intentionally counter steer, riding a dirt bike is definitely the way to go. You can practice riding, turning, counter steering, and laying the bike down without taking the high side all you want thru gravel, wet, mud, whatever ...... all without worrying about oncoming or cross traffic. It will make spotting and then dealing with different road conditions on the street much more intuitive, and provide experiences about how to make going down and not over on a bike much less violent or instantaneous. Buy hey, that's just my experience, I'm sure other people have very valid different ones.

I'm new on this forum and the Honda is my first CVT, I think the PCX is a really super bike .... it boggles my mind how versatile and capable this 150cc actually is !

Duke82 wrote:If you drive like that with more power you will loose the rear wheel mid corner and crashyour scooter/bike

I think that's why I like to watch MotoGP - I get to watch phenomenal riders doing things on amazing bikes that I'd like to be able to do, but know I never would be able to do in a million years ... so I don't even think of trying. I just leave it to the experts.

Great posts, Maverick. I like that Mick Doohan one, and you're spot on with the leaning.

The one thing I would add is that if you're leaned over when you realize you're going too fast to make the turn, chances are that braking is going to immediately cause a crash. We're using up all our grip and lean angle, the contact patch is at its limit. Ask it to do more and you'll go down for sure.

I had one experience I'd like to share. I was riding with my wife, two up, with a group of sport-touring buddies. We were leaned over in a turn on the Concours. We were mid-turn, and I realized we were going too fast. Since I was with my wife, I decided to try to slow down, rather than lean off the bike more. I applied a bit of brakes gently, and could feel the front tire starting to let go; it was overloaded. I quickly knew that wasn't going to work. Let go of the brakes, maintained throttle and leaned off of the bike more to tighten the line. Anything else would have caused a crash.

One book I read that really helped me to understand how that works is "A Twist of the Wrist II". It's all about how cornering and braking works on a motorcycle.

Smaug wrote:Great posts, Maverick. I like that Mick Doohan one, and you're spot on with the leaning.

The one thing I would add is that if you're leaned over when you realize you're going too fast to make the turn, chances are that braking is going to immediately cause a crash. We're using up all our grip and lean angle, the contact patch is at its limit. Ask it to do more and you'll go down for sure.

I had one experience I'd like to share. I was riding with my wife, two up, with a group of sport-touring buddies. We were leaned over in a turn on the Concours. We were mid-turn, and I realized we were going too fast. Since I was with my wife, I decided to try to slow down, rather than lean off the bike more. I applied a bit of brakes gently, and could feel the front tire starting to let go; it was overloaded. I quickly knew that wasn't going to work. Let go of the brakes, maintained throttle and leaned off of the bike more to tighten the line. Anything else would have caused a crash.

One book I read that really helped me to understand how that works is "A Twist of the Wrist II". It's all about how cornering and braking works on a motorcycle.

A touch of rear brake tightens the line lovely in these situations.

I had one experience I'd like to share. I was riding with my wife, two up, with a group of sport-touring buddies. We were leaned over in a turn on the Concours. We were mid-turn, and I realized we were going too fast. Since I was with my wife, I decided to try to slow down, rather than lean off the bike more. I applied a bit of brakes gently, and could feel the front tire starting to let go; it was overloaded. I quickly knew that wasn't going to work. Let go of the brakes, maintained throttle and leaned off of the bike more to tighten the line. Anything else would have caused a crash.

A true OOOOhhhhhssssshhhhhhhh.................... moment!

All that thinking going on in split seconds. . .glad you were OK.