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I have had drivers tell me that they didn't see us after they cut us off, and I was wearing a Hi-viz jacket, bright yellow helmet, on a red bike, with additional lights on in the front. So the question is, what more could I have done to be seen by them? Maybe those flashing lights are the answer, but I am inclined to believe that the driver was not even looking for cars. Their head was down like they were texting or reading a text. I see more and more of that, so the question remains, How can we be more visible to drivers? Any suggestions are welcome, I am sure.

Had a close call this morning. A little Mennonite lady pulled right out in front of me while I was heading out of town toward the highway. I had enough space that I could brake, but she hadn't even bothered to look to her right. I was wearing my blaze orange Woolrich vest, and was not speeding, which was advantageous as I was able to avoid a wreck. I pulled up beside her, pointed to my orange vest and asked if she could in the future use her eyes to watch for others. She was very apologetic, not that it would have done me much good had I been unable to avoid a collision. Many times, "I didn't see you," simply means "I didn't look."

Was she in a buggy? That would be embarrassing--crashing into a buggy, even if it was her fault.

Nothing more can be done.You cannot legislate stupid or awareness.Its a crapshoot every time you go out, just be as much visible as possible, drive defensively as possible, and be on the good side of your God..Be safe my friends!

DailyRider wrote:Was she in a buggy? That would be embarrassing--crashing into a buggy, even if it was her fault.

Heheh, no, she wasn't "bike and buggy" Mennonite. Tbh, I think she might have been a Hutterite or brethren, as her head covering wasn't the traditional Mennonite doily. She was in a little Honda, and she pulled out really slow. If I hadn't slowed down, I'd have plowed into her passenger door.

I felt bad for getting angry with her, but it was early and she just didn't look at all.

I drove by this accident the other day:

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/16 ... cape-crash

Motorcycle was underneath this white van and my heart just dropped. The guy managed to jump off his motorcycle before the van plowed over it.

easyrider wrote:Nothing more can be done.You cannot legislate stupid or awareness.Its a crapshoot every time you go out, just be as much visible as possible, drive defensively as possible, and be on the good side of your God..Be safe my friends!

Did you mean legislate against stupidity?

Does this accident and similar crashes perpetuate the use and value of driverless vehicles ? Will computer sensors see motorcyclists better than the human brain ? I guess time will tell , because they're coming. I guess we will be the testing grounds to find out..OUCH!! I personally am in favor of driver operated vehicles with braking and detection warning systems made mandatory. Mainly, because if Robbie the robot ever has a short circuit I'd hate to wind up in his lap.

Several large driver-less lorries in a convoy formation just cross europe (100's miles) without any problems - no idea how that can happen with human drivers driving badly, people walking across roads, animals, etc, but it worked. Meanwhile Google driverless vehicles have had 15 accidents on the normal roads since they started.

Anyway, I've said a few times already that motorcyclists are fully responsible for their own safety by riding defensively. Slow down at intersections where drivers could make left/right turns into you. Stay out of blind spots. Scan your mirrors and all around you frequently. There are unavoidable accidents that may still occur despite your best efforts but that's just the small risk of being on two wheels.

iceman wrote:Several large driver-less lorries in a convoy formation just cross europe (100's miles) without any problems - no idea how that can happen with human drivers driving badly, people walking across roads, animals, etc, but it worked. Meanwhile Google driverless vehicles have had 15 accidents on the normal roads since they started.

The lorries can only operate automatically on motorways.

I think the Google vehicles have more like 30, but only 1 at fault.

Driverless vehicles could be a mixed blessing. There's that possibility that they could ban all manually controlled vehicles on the road in the future when the technology has matured enough, including motorcycles.

I think the likely scenario is that driverless and human operated vehicles coexist as people who view driving simply as an evil but necessary task -- the ones who are more likely to cause accidents in my opinion -- switch to driverless and leave human operated vehicles for the rest of us. Aggressive drivers can be banned from driving a vehicle but will still be able to get around on driverless vehicles.

sendler2112 wrote:I like this one from another forum.
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One of my instructors teaching at the MSF when I took it with my wife was a police officer.

He said "accidents" are when things beyond your control happen.... tire blowout, wheel falls off, deer hits you, etc... Everything else is a "traffic crash" and is avoidable.
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Even some of what the instructor calls "accidents" could actually be what he calls a crash depending on the circumstances. Tire blowout: fail to check tires regularly, knowingly operating worn-out tires = avoidable. Wheel falls off: Wheel bearing failure due to lack of proper maintenance = avoidable.

easyrider wrote:The opposite of accidental would be intentional. The crashes I have seen were when a lady driver made a turn in front of an oncoming cyclist. He hit her broadside and flew over the cars roof. The driver said she didn't see the motorcycle and it seemed to have blended in with a pole. This was many years ago and a headlight was not required on a motorcycle. Now, I know the lady did not do this intentionally, so although it could have been avoidable it is still is an accident in the sense that he blended in the surrounding environment and she didn't see him.The other one was when a driver pulled out in front of an oncoming cyclist.. Again, the story was I did not see the motorcycle and was non intentional..hence the term accidental. Avoidable ..yes, if they didn't decide to wake up and go out perhaps ??

There's a lexicon in the traffic safety business. It was almost twenty years ago they started to change the terminology from accident to crash. It's a little counterintuitive as you point out re: accident/intentional. But, the change has deeper significance; hence, from an US government release circa 1997:

A Crash Is Not an Accident

Changing the way we think about events, and the words we use to describe them, affects the way we behave. Motor vehicle crashes and injuries are predictable, preventable events. Continued use of the word “accident” promotes the concept that these events are outside of human influence or control. In fact, they are predictable results of specific actions.

Since we can identify the causes of crashes, we can take action to alter the effect, and avoid collisions. These events are not “acts of God” but predictable results of the laws of physics.

The concept of “accident” works against bringing all the appropriate resources to bear on the enormous problem of motor vehicle collisions. Continuous use of “accident” fosters the idea that the resulting injuries are an unavoidable part of life.

“Crash”, “collision”, “incident”, and “injury” are more appropriate terms, and should be encouraged as substitutes for the word “accident”.

Bash On! wrote:Tire blowout: fail to check tires regularly, knowingly operating worn-out tires = avoidable.

In my defense, I learned my lesson. I replaced my front tire a few weeks ago right when it hit the wear bar.

Mel46 wrote:I have had drivers tell me that they didn't see us after they cut us off, and I was wearing a Hi-viz jacket, bright yellow helmet, on a red bike, with additional lights on in the front. So the question is, what more could I have done to be seen by them? Maybe those flashing lights are the answer, but I am inclined to believe that the driver was not even looking for cars. Their head was down like they were texting or reading a text. I see more and more of that, so the question remains, How can we be more visible to drivers? Any suggestions are welcome, I am sure.

Be as visible as you can, because at least some will see you because of it. As you allude to, at some point there is a practical limit to visibility improvements you can make, and ...

As all here know, there will always be those who don't see you. For them, you have need to have a constantly evolving escape/evasion defensive riding plan.

Even then, at a certain point the other driver's actions will not leave you enough reaction time to implement your defensive riding plan. That's when you have to rely on passive measures--your safety gear.

If after all that, the level of residual risk is too high (personal calculation), it's time to stop riding.

Bash On! wrote:

Mel46 wrote:I have had drivers tell me that they didn't see us after they cut us off, and I was wearing a Hi-viz jacket, bright yellow helmet, on a red bike, with additional lights on in the front. So the question is, what more could I have done to be seen by them? Maybe those flashing lights are the answer, but I am inclined to believe that the driver was not even looking for cars. Their head was down like they were texting or reading a text. I see more and more of that, so the question remains, How can we be more visible to drivers? Any suggestions are welcome, I am sure.

Be as visible as you can, because at least some will see you because of it. As you allude to, at some point there is a practical limit to visibility improvements you can make, and ...

As all here know, there will always be those who don't see you. For them, you have need to have a constantly evolving escape/evasion defensive riding plan.

Even then, at a certain point the other driver's actions will not leave you enough reaction time to implement your defensive riding plan. That's when you have to rely on passive measures--your safety gear.

If after all that, the level of residual risk is too high (personal calculation), it's time to stop riding.

I need to get out on my bike soon or start to drink again if I have to read more of this verbal diarrhoea

What an unkind thing to say to anybody, you you. Would you say that kind of thing to someone in person, without the anonymity of the Internet?

That is a rhetorical question so no need for an answer. Regardless of whether your answer would be yes or no, I feel sad for you.

Bash On! wrote:What an unkind thing to say to anybody, you you. Would you say that kind of thing to someone in person, without the anonymity of the Internet?

That is a rhetorical question so no need for an answer. Regardless of whether your answer would be yes or no, I feel sad for you.

Can't be the first that's been said to you surely?

Bash On! wrote:What an unkind thing to say to anybody, you you.

I wouldn't take it personally.
I think that 2 yous was just bored by your post and was expressing that with his usual bone dry humor.

Of course, that may not be his perspective... hard to tell over the Internet.

Oh No! Is it Still raining 2yous? I Knows it gits a bit grumpy living inside and quite the bore.
Aye, there's always a pub ta visit with folks of the same mind sharing elongated and pissy stories.
I gets it! Winter was long n gray here. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan of the color gray that was easy ta figure

Today our Sun shines brightly, but I'm an achy and grumpy being. A tooth of mine was pulled late yesterday and itsa son of a bitch today that Food and drink cannot satisfy. Ibuprofen and only mushy soft consumables allowed. Yuck! Anywho...here I be

Getting distracted by joining a hooligan's ride on the forum. Not wishing to bite off more than I can chew haha, I can't (and no pun intended ) but I'm asking that you respond in kinder words or just leave this topic to those appreciating the well intended info being expressed. Good stuff written imo.
Really? Diarrhea (diarrhoea). Many do not understand your humor or If that was humor.

Note, You truly make me lmao sometimes Right Out Loud, but this is Not that time
Make me laugh, I'll luv ya more

you you wrote:
Can't be the first that's been said to you surely?

You're right, it's not the first time. The last time that was said to me would have been on the playground in elementary (primary) school.