The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Yeah, I'll say this again and I've said it before on these forums. You would normally assume that by gearing a bike taller, that you'd need more power to get the higher speeds. And there's always some truth to that. But in stock form, the bike is hitting the rev limiter at 67-68mph and it's about 5-10mph past it's peak power making RPM by that point and the curve on the dyno chart is evidence of that. By gearing it to top out at 80 for example, you put the power peak at 70-75mph vs 55-60ish. So, stock vs modded variator like mine that is geared to 79mph...I have 9hp at 70 vs a stock geared PCX being down to 8hp at 67. See what I mean!

Here's a PCX125 dyno chart...all I could find with a 1 min search late at night on the couch watching TV next to the wife. But notice the 2.5hp power drop-off between 8k and 9k rpm. This is why the stock PCX feels so lethargic when bumping up against the rev limiter at 68mph, and you just can't believe that by gearing it any taller, that it would even have any power left...but it really does, by putting the bike in the meat of the powerband for freeway/highway speeds. =)

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a56 ... 9d1d87.jpg

Are you hitting mid+ 70s too on your PCX 150 with the NCY Variator and face?

pcx man wrote:I have the NCY variator and drive face and run the OEM rollers on my 2013 PCX 150. I would like to know how long the rollers will last? I have a little ruckus with a scooter ninja variator and it wears OEM rollers out in less than 2000 miles. Thanks

ScooterMan wrote:Yeah, I'll say this again and I've said it before on these forums. You would normally assume that by gearing a bike taller, that you'd need more power to get the higher speeds. And there's always some truth to that. But in stock form, the bike is hitting the rev limiter at 67-68mph and it's about 5-10mph past it's peak power making RPM by that point and the curve on the dyno chart is evidence of that. By gearing it to top out at 80 for example, you put the power peak at 70-75mph vs 55-60ish. So, stock vs modded variator like mine that is geared to 79mph...I have 9hp at 70 vs a stock geared PCX being down to 8hp at 67. See what I mean!

Here's a PCX125 dyno chart...all I could find with a 1 min search late at night on the couch watching TV next to the wife. But notice the 2.5hp power drop-off between 8k and 9k rpm. This is why the stock PCX feels so lethargic when bumping up against the rev limiter at 68mph, and you just can't believe that by gearing it any taller, that it would even have any power left...but it really does, by putting the bike in the meat of the powerband for freeway/highway speeds. =)

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a56 ... 9d1d87.jpg

I definitely get and believe what you are saying Scooterman, I just want to see if I can feel any power difference before I change the gearing, for my own curiosity. I'm really stoked to have this thing perform better!

vamootsman wrote:So today I did a 1 hour out, and 1 hour back trip to my sons Golf Tourney from the Quad Cities to Kewanee Illinois, so have some seat of the pants observations. My sled is stock with a shortened Givi tall windscreen.
A little interstate, and a lot of back roads, mostly flat.
Reaffirmed the that this scoot needs a couple more horsepower and a higher top end. Honda left it a bit short on both for US riding. Not by much, but enough.
I was good on the back roads at 55-60mph, but there's no accceleration left. (That's cool, It's the way it was designed)
On I74 and the faster backroads I could bounce off the limiter, but only going down a grade.
Just couldn't keep up with traffic on the interstate. Not by much but enough to want more.
Scooterman set me up with a new Silent Oval exhaust, and led me to an NCY variator and drive face, and I also found a K&N r-1100 air cleaner.
Gonna do the opposite of some, and install the exhaust and filter first, just to see if I can notice any increased fell in power and acceleration. We'll see if I can start bouncing the limiter a little easier.
After that I'll do the Variator and Drive Face.
I'll disconnect the battery too.
Thanks Scooterman for helping round up the parts.

So i did the round trip again today, and have a couple more observations.
The belt must get warm and stretch a bit or get a little more squishy as it heats up, i.e. for the first 10 mile of the ride I was bouncing the limiter at 68 (on a slight decline), Then as the trip progressed, it started to bounce at around 65/66. Don't know if a gates belt would help or not. Anyone?

The fuel economy went way down at 60-65 WOT. (No traffic on same great rural highways). I was getting less than 80mpg.
I would be ok with that fuel economy if the tank were bigger. 2.5 to 3 gallons would be ideal. I want to ride it to Des Moines but don't want to have to stop every hour and a 1/4.

So, this would be a more usable scooter in the midwest if;
It would comfortably cruise at 70 with a little left
Had double the fuel capacity
Had no hump on the seat.

Honda could do that for $100 to $200 extra from the factory and it would be all I would ever want in a two wheeled commuter/short tourer.
I don't want the bike any bigger, its quick and nimble and fits about anywhere you could think to park it in the U.S. (I don't want a Forza, too big!)
I've had bigger bikes but have become more minimalist (sensible).

Scooterman has the speed issue worked out for cheap.
We'll see if the power parts help (if not they look f'n cool anyway) but a bit spendy if they dont do anything
The seat can be dealt with but the cost is questionable (as you start to look at 2015's with bigger tanks too)
The fuel capacity is gonna be a tough one, but I have some ideas.

Sounds like a 2015 is in my future. with a few easy mods.

Still wanna keep the 13 though and play with it. Maybe do a his and hers with a 13 and 15.

Time to finish my G and T and get some sleep.

So Scooterman says the seat on the 15 still leaves a bit to be desired, so scratch that off the list of improvements. Needs to be functionally, not just aesthetically better.

I'm finding the seat to be an issue, as I often slip forward on my 2015 seat (125 '14) and keep jostling back - and that is at city speeds, maybe I'd be further back doing 60+

Correct Vamootsman, You may have a bit ectra room, but still not enough for me to comfortable straight leg it with my 5' 10" frame. My behind is still hitting the passenger portion, except that at least it is not as hard as the "hump" on the 2013. I actually get a sore butt when i try to straight leg it on long rides. Like, for an hour or more total in a day. I think the 2015 is an improvement, it's just that no hump doesn't mean "perfection."

No spark plug is going to give any improvement.

sendler2112 wrote:No spark plug is going to give any improvement.

Your joking. I thought at least 2-3 bhp.

I'm surprised to see the dyno above show an exhaust making that much difference without using a fuel controller to do a remap.

Why do you think Honda made the compromises it did on the 2013 PCX? Fuel economy maybe?

I don't particularly want a higher max speed, as the bike feels light and a little wobbly to me much over 55 mph. But I'd welcome better acceleration at the low end.

I test rode the 2015 when I bought a new 2013 and the new seat only helped a bit. Still hard as a rock.

vamootsman wrote:So Scooterman says the seat on the 15 still leaves a bit to be desired, so scratch that off the list of improvements. Needs to be functionally, not just aesthetically better.

SECoda wrote:I test rode the 2015 when I bought a new 2013 and the new seat only helped a bit. Still hard as a rock.

vamootsman wrote:So Scooterman says the seat on the 15 still leaves a bit to be desired, so scratch that off the list of improvements. Needs to be functionally, not just aesthetically better.

I agree with this, the hump is still there and it feels like it shouldn't be someone upstairs at Honda has a brother that makes aftermarket seats for PCX... never going to change.

Jarec wrote:Why do you think Honda made the compromises it did on the 2013 PCX? Fuel economy maybe?

Compromises? The 150 was already too fast to be legal for 2013 A1 licensing in Europe so they had to stick with the PCX125. Honda makes bigger bikes and scooters if you want something more. The PCX is a world bike and would be considered a super high end and expensive machine in most markets.

homie wrote:

SECoda wrote:I test rode the 2015 when I bought a new 2013 and the new seat only helped a bit. Still hard as a rock.

vamootsman wrote:So Scooterman says the seat on the 15 still leaves a bit to be desired, so scratch that off the list of improvements. Needs to be functionally, not just aesthetically better.

I agree with this, the hump is still there and it feels like it shouldn't be someone upstairs at Honda has a brother that makes aftermarket seats for PCX... never going to change.

Do you have the brothers name?

vamootsman wrote:
So, this would be a more usable scooter in the midwest if;
It would comfortably cruise at 70 with a little more reserve power.
Had double the fuel capacity
Had no hump on the seat.

Honda could do that for $100 to $200 extra from the factory and it would be all I would ever want in a two wheeled commuter/short tourer.
I don't want the bike any bigger, its quick and nimble and fits about anywhere you could think to park it in the U.S. (I don't want a Forza, too big!)

Agreed. I love my PCX! But it needs just about 3-5 more HP. I know that it would be expensive to attain that. As was already mentioned, Honda intended this to be a world-market scooter with fuel economy as the main goal, or they would have designed a 4 valve head and a 11,500 RPM redline. This would be expensive for Honda and they would pass this along to it's customers.

There are 1-2 after market kits available now, but i am not comfortable with the current offering. Several threads here paint Yuminashi in a very poor light.

Dave (MaddieDog) installed a Takegawa head and cylinder kit, but he has the 125cc model and this will not fit the eSP model, the 150, or the new 150s.
In the meantime I will wait and watch for a viable option. Also I must state for the Peanut gallery that the Forza is too big for my tastes.

Takegawa has had a kit for the 150 esp for some time

See the new post here about a 125 Forza (I believe it packs more of a punch and they quote only 10mpg less than the PCX 125).

Honda is smart as long as [they] don't see what they are doing and change from using CCs for the no license limit.

Slickvic wrote:

vamootsman wrote:
So, this would be a more usable scooter in the midwest if;
It would comfortably cruise at 70 with a little more reserve power.
Had double the fuel capacity
Had no hump on the seat.

Honda could do that for $100 to $200 extra from the factory and it would be all I would ever want in a two wheeled commuter/short tourer.
I don't want the bike any bigger, its quick and nimble and fits about anywhere you could think to park it in the U.S. (I don't want a Forza, too big!)

Agreed. I love my PCX! But it needs just about 3-5 more HP. I know that it would be expensive to attain that. As was already mentioned, Honda intended this to be a world-market scooter with fuel economy as the main goal, or they would have designed a 4 valve head and a 11,500 RPM redline. This would be expensive for Honda and they would pass this along to it's customers.

It wouldn't add much cost. Would be nice to see a model that had some more power on tap, whether from more agrressive compression ratio on prem fuel running more timing advance and a more aggressive cam, or just a factory big bore in the neighborhood of 180cc could work. Maybe the new Burgman 200 will take enough of a chunk out of sales of the PCX to get Honda to offer a hopped up PCX? A few years ago I would have said no chance, but the fact that they bumped the PCX from 124 to 153cc is already a good sign, and that they bumped the CBR250 to 300 (not exactly) and produced the Honda Grom means they're listening to their customers. We all want a factory "hot rod," something that is outside the lines of the norm, and these departures from the norm (like the CBR300) or Kawasaki 636 give them an edge in the class. Prob is, the PCX 150 is currently in a class by itself, and Honda has it's own Forza as the next step up (although a significant leap in price).

So, yeah, a 180cc model with a factory milled head or decked cylinder would be cool. An extra 3-5hp is possible, and at a minor penalty in around town driving. At freeway speeds, if it adds another 10mph to top speed and people start cruising at a constant 80mph, I can see fuel economy dropping to low to mid 50's! In which case, you're not getting much performance for the fuel economy. But, if you can slow down, you can.

Anyway, I'll stop speculating, or wishing. =)