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Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:33 am
by JetPilot
MBMyer wrote: The gauges are probably not as accurate as we would like.
Pax et bonum,
Michael
I have 10 Honda Motorcycles, and the Speedometers and mileage gauges on them are VERY ACCURATE. They are all accurate within 1 MPH according to my GPS at 60 MPH, both the newer digital gauges and older analogue guage as on my Honda SH150i Scooter.

I keep seeing this " MYTH " about gauges being inaccurate posted. While the cheap Chinese scooters lie on their gauges, it is downright wrong to assume all the other brands do...

Mike

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:31 am
by MBMyer
JetPilot wrote: I have 10 Honda Motorcycles, and the Speedometers and mileage gauges on them are VERY ACCURATE. They are all accurate within 1 MPH according to my GPS at 60 MPH, both the newer digital gauges and older analogue guage as on my Honda SH150i Scooter.
On the VFR and the Wing, the speedo and odo were both off by about 6-7% according to (respectively) the "your current speed" radar signs and the mileage markers along the side of the highway. Mileage was especially easy to check when riding cross-country and going tank-to-tank without stopping. The mileage markers would tell me I had put 200 miles on, but my odo would have increased by 212.x on the viffer and by 213.6 on the Wing. This varied only as the tires wore down. (And I promise that I really don't wobble around in the lanes that much.)

On the Forza, the speedo matches exactly what the radar signs say, but (as I said above) the mpg metering is a bit optimistic on each and every tankful.

These are the real-world measurements I have used, and what I have observed on my own.

YMMV,
Michael

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:47 am
by JetPilot
MBMyer wrote: On the VFR and the Wing, the speedo and odo were both off by about 6-7% according to (respectively) the "your current speed" radar signs and the mileage markers along the side of the highway.

These are the real-world measurements I have used, and what I have observed on my own.

YMMV,
Michael
Hi Michael,

That is crazy, very different from my results, but I do not have your types of bikes. Are they older bikes ? The radar signs are not always so accurate, GPS is always dead on accurate, and is the best way to compare.

Mike

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:31 am
by waybar
JetPilot wrote:
The radar signs are not always so accurate, GPS is always dead on accurate, and is the best way to compare.
I've noticed that also. The speedo on my Forza is right on with my GPS also, but I've noticed when they put up the radar speed signs along the road that they usually show a few mph less than my speedo, on both my scooter and car.

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:20 am
by JetPilot
GPS VS Honda Speedometer on a couple bikes...

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:27 am
by davenowherejones
I find that GPS is not reliable for a speedometer in the mountains around here (British Columbia, Canada). I will hold a constant speed and my gps speed will vary quite a bit.

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:40 pm
by Brent
After 15,000 miles on my PCX 150, I believe my mpg readout is fairly close to accurate. My last fill up two days ago had 103.1 mpg on the readout, and Fuelly.com had it as 100.93 mpg (80% city driving / 20% highway). I have noticed that my speed is usually 1.0 to 1.5 mph slower than what the radar signs shows my speed at.

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:04 pm
by you you
JetPilot wrote:GPS VS Honda Speedometer on a couple bikes...
I suppose there is nothing else to do :D

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:23 pm
by MBMyer
JetPilot wrote:That is crazy, very different from my results, but I do not have your types of bikes. Are they older bikes ?
The most recent Wing was a 2003. The earlier Wing was an '83 Aspencade, but I wasn't quite as compulsive about data collection back in those days. The Viffer was a '93 model in pearl white instead of the usual Very Frickin' Red. By the time a tree hit it in late '02, it had a full set of Givi bags of various sizes, a Givi screen, a Corbin saddle (which I will never do again), Helibar handlebar risers, and several other mods that let me know that I was craving a touring bike again. So when the tree totaled it, I replaced it with the '03 Wing. It was with the VFR that I started keeping the same sort of compulsive records that I always had done with the cages.

Before that, my only other 750 was the 10th anniversary edition CB750K LTD ('79 model) which I rode at the end of the 80's, beginning of the 90's, after the '83 Aspencade. Also, way back in the day, were the earlier Silverwing (GL500I, basically a factory-dressed CX500 transverse twin) and another scooter back in the 80s, an Elite 120.

At some point, with some arm twisting, I might be compelled to tell stories about traction, speedometer & odometer readings, tire life, and the '03 Wing (my favorite bike to date; if way oversized for the way I'm riding these days). For now, just know that it is on the last three bikes ('93 VFR, '03 GL1800, '14 Forza 300 (bought in '15)) that I have kept records of every penny spent, of every mile ridden. And on two out of three of those bikes ('97-present) I have found that Honda speedometers are optimistic, and that the odometer ticks over too quickly. Your bikes may have different engineering.
JetPilot wrote:The radar signs are not always so accurate, GPS is always dead on accurate, and is the best way to compare.
I accept that the radar signs are "not always so accurate," but I find that they are always identical in what they read -v- what my gauges say. Whether it's one of the permanent installations (1 mile north of me, riding through a college shopping/drinking area; 0.8 miles east of me in a school zone) or one of those temporary trailers that show up (on my route to church or my route to work), they are all calibrated the same and show exactly the same reading WRT my dashboards. I expect that they are calibrated the same as the equipment inside local LEOs vehicles, so I try to make sure I know what their equipment is likely to say when I go past them.

OTOH, my experience with civilian GPS is varied. In areas with marked elevation changes (including rough seas and mountain roads), the instantaneous velocity reading varies wildly. Even when tracking a walk for health data, the momentary velocity can vary in ways that make the head spin. I have seen much more accurate reading from specialized GPS systems, both military and WHO based, but those have only let me know that the tech is available, but not to plebeians like my own self.

For the best ODO corrections available to me, highway mile markers on a long trip, I know that my Honda gauges are optimistic at best.

And if my own mpg calculations were in error because of variations in how I filled my tank, I would expect that some of my spreadsheet readings would be higher and some lower than what the gauge on the dash reads. But so far, every single gauge reading except one has been higher than what my trip meter and the gas station's gallon reading told me; for that one, I think that the gas station's meter was off. It told me that I had only topped up with enough fuel to make almost 110 mpg on that tank, but the next three tanks have all been within normal parameters. I'm pretty sure that I got free gas on that visit.

I'll attach a screenshot of the relevant bit of the spreadsheet:
Screen Shot 2016-12-23 at 4.16.39 PM.png
Screen Shot 2016-12-23 at 4.16.39 PM.png (164.24 KiB) Viewed 903 times
So, all-in-all, I'm willing to say that my instantaneous mpg meter is optimistic, although my speedo is much more like what the local LEOs see than my previous Hondas have been.

As always, YMMV.

Pax et bonum,
Michael

wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:59 pm
by DAB
Does a phone GPS and a dedicated GPS use a different data system?(satellite vs mast based signal).

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:57 am
by JetPilot
DAB wrote:Does a phone GPS and a dedicated GPS use a different data system?(satellite vs mast based signal).
Hi DAB,

Modern phones have a built in GPS receiver that uses the exactly same satellite system as a dedicated GPS does.

Cell phone location by tower triangulation will NEVER give you speed, and is very inaccurate for position, only gets you to within maybe 1/2 miles in the city, and can have errors of many miles in the country.

Mike

Re: 1000 miles

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:02 am
by JetPilot
MBMyer wrote: As always, YMMV.

Pax et bonum,
Michael

wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Wow, thanks for the very complete information !!! All my bikes are much newer, so the conclusion I would draw is that Honda has corrected the speedometer accuracy on their newer motorcycles and scooters. I will post some pictures on the new 2017 Forza one day, and see how accurate it is compared to the GPS :D

Mike