New Japanese fwy capable vs. used Taiwanese fwy comfortable

[SECoda]

I forgot to mention the seat works correctly on the Downtown and there is some more storage space and the lights are a bit better than the Forza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=8 ... 1422579428

[gn2]

I like the lighter weight (maybe 70 lbs or so) than the Forza

Downtown dry weight is 166kg.
Add fuel and oil and its up to 179kg for the ABS version
Which makes it 15kg lighter than a Forza.
15kg isn't 70lbs

[SECoda]

Ok 55 lbs. It's still early. I did say maybe 70.

DOWNTOWN 300I SPECIFICATIONS

Engine Type
4-stroke
Displacement
298.9cc
Bore/Stroke
72.7x72mm
Cooling System
Liquid-cooled
Ignition
Electric
Gearbox
CVT automatic
Carburetor
EFI
Front Suspension
Telescopic forks
Rear Suspension
5 Position Adjustable Dual Shocks
Front Brake
Disc
Rear Brake
Disc
Front Wheel/Tire
120/80-14
Rear Wheel/Tire
150/70-13
Seat Height
30.5 in.
Wheelbase
60.8 in.
Fuel Capacity/MPG
3.3 gals./ Estimated 69
Weight
367 lbs.
Available Colors
Pearl White, Burnt Orange
MSRP
$5,599.00

Forza
ENGINE
Engine Type 279cc liquid-cooled single cylinder four-stroke
Bore And Stroke 72.0mm x 68.6mm
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Induction PGM-FI with automatic enrichment
Ignition Full transistorized
Valve Train SOHC; four-valve
DRIVE TRAIN
Transmission Honda V-Matic belt-converter continuously variable automatic transmission
CHASSIS / SUSPENSION / BRAKES
Front Suspension 35mm telescopic fork; 3.7 inches travel
Rear Suspension Twin shock; 3.8 inches travel
Front Brake Single 256mm disc with twin-piston caliper with CBS (third front brake piston is activated upon application of rear brake)
Rear Brake Single 240mm disc with single-piston caliper with CBS (one front brake piston is activated upon application of rear brake)
Front Tire 120/70-14
Rear Tire 140/70-13
DIMENSIONS
Rake 27° 0´
Trail 89mm (3.5 inches)
Wheelbase 60.9 inches
Seat Height 28.2 inches
Fuel Capacity 3.0 gallons
Mpg 68 MPG*
Curb Weight 422 Pounds (Includes all standard equipment, required fluids and full tank of fuel - ready to ride)

[gn2]

Don't know where you got those Downtown specs from, Kymco UK quotes the weight as 179kg (394lbs) That's fully fuelled ready to go.
http://www.kymco.co.uk/kymco/new/bikes/ ... Mz5GjXDjtR
Kymco Global quote 166kg DRY weight which works out at 366lb.
You need to add fuel, coolant and lubricant to that figure.
http://www.kymco.com/product/category/S ... ABS/sp.asp

Admitedly the Downtown is slightly lighter, but not enough of a difference to make enough of a difference.

[dkazzed]

I like the Downtown styling and yes I think it has dual 55W halogen lights. The only thing I have an issue with is not having a proper comfortable fairing footrest. I hardly have any qualms with the seat itself. If I could consider the Forza I would. No complaints about the Forza.

You can ride a motorbike in a suit too.
Its also the wrong attire for a scooter.
Hitting the ground hurts just as much whether you fall off a bike or scooter.

I've ridden a bicycle at up to 60km/h with nothing more than flimsy cycling attire thinking to myself if I fall I'm going to be in a lot of pain. It's hard to do even 40km/h downtown in lighter and less crazy traffic. I know it's risky from a motorcycling standpoint, but as an experienced cyclist I believe I'm ok.

With a motorcycle, one is more exposed. At least that's how I perceive it. I always wear proper gear for my commute. That's when the nuts come out to drive. I also wear full gear if I have to leave the city core or its raining out.

I just had a thought, someone should come out with Kevlar lined or armoured dress pants. I want to get the BMW Urbano jacket or Tucano jacket, both seem to suit my style. Oh I always wear a jacket because it's still pretty chilly with out, about 7-12C or 50-60F daytime high.

[SECoda]

We keep our Kymco's on a diet over here. Actually the ABS must add more than I thought.

http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scoote ... tions.html

Don't get me wrong - I really like the Forza.

Yes - that foot placement and leg room on the DT was a show-stopper for me. I am actually heading to that dealer in about 5 min to try on high-viz helmets. They are Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris, Kymco, and Bombardier. They have tons of helmets but are too expensive. I just try them on there.

Don't know where you got those Downtown specs from, Kymco UK quotes the weight as 179kg (394lbs) That's fully fuelled ready to go.
http://www.kymco.co.uk/kymco/new/bikes/ ... Mz5GjXDjtR
Kymco Global quote 166kg DRY weight which works out at 366lb.
You need to add fuel, coolant and lubricant to that figure.
http://www.kymco.com/product/category/S ... ABS/sp.asp

Admitedly the Downtown is slightly lighter, but not enough of a difference to make enough of a difference.

[Mel46]

You asked about the valve adjustment on the 400. I had the valves adjusted when I first bought mine. The mechanic said that he loved working on a Burgman 400. Our PCX went in at the same time. We rode home on the Burgman while the PCX was still in the shop. It took the mechanic a whole 30 minutes to do the valves on my Burgman. I never had to get them adjusted again. There are a ton of YouTube videos on how to do just about everything on a Burgman. Working on it was easy. It is a single cylinder
By the way, the back brace on the seat adjusts back and forth to allow you to fit it to your comfort. The 2006 comes with a back support for the passenger. On all of the others, it is an option. However, there are even YouTube videos on how to install those too. The only thing I did not like about my Burgman was......hmmmm....I can't think of anything I didn't like about it. I purchased a large Givi top box and a tall windshield. I also purchased some RAM mounts. It comes with a power outlet in the glove box. Some owners ran wires for an additional power outlet elsewhere as well because closing the glove box door on wires could pinch them. (That didn't stop me from using Bluetooth speakers and putting my iPod in the side storage bin. When I ran my GPS, I drilled a small hole on the bottom of the glove box door and ran the usb wire through it. (Just cut a small "V" in the bottom of the door.) It has a center glove box and two smaller side enclosures, plus enough underseat storage for two helmets.

[dkazzed]

Thanks, Mel46. This is why I shouldn't believe everything I hear randomly on the internet. Which one of these listings would you look at first:

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/mcy/4868032569.html '04 33k km $2800CA
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/mcy/4866411278.html '04 16k km Givi box $3250CA
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/mcy/4861105692.html '05 33k km $2000CA

Not a 400 but a '14 200ABS demo with 1.5k km warranty for 3 years no freight/PDI $4499CA, still within my cash purchase budget.
http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/mcd/4834742433.html

$1CA = $0.785US

We keep our Kymco's on a diet over here. Actually the ABS must add more than I thought.

http://www.kymcousa.com/showroom/scoote ... tions.html

Don't get me wrong - I really like the Forza.

Yes - that foot placement and leg room on the DT was a show-stopper for me. I am actually heading to that dealer in about 5 min to try on high-viz helmets. They are Suzuki, Kawasaki, Polaris, Kymco, and Bombardier. They have tons of helmets but are too expensive. I just try them on there.

If the bike suits someone, I don't think you can go wrong with many of the maxi-scooters out there. Forza has a disadvantage of being on the market a bit less. There's the Reflex as well, but someone on Craigslist is asking over $4000 for an 06.

I think the term for browsing in store and buying online is "Showrooming".

[dkazzed]

I found these kevlar lined underpants:

http://www.amazon.com/Draggin-Liners-Si ... B001J1JBI6

How does Kevlar stack up against CE approved armour? I currently wear cycling/jogging pants under a pair of dress pants or jeans, then further wear a waterproof abrasion resistant heavy nylon pants on top of everything during my commute. But when I crashed last November, my knees which impacted the pavement still hurt like no tomorrow. The nylon pants looked undamaged but my dress pants underneath got burn marks. So I really do need proper riding pants for my commute. But for lunch rides less than 50km/h, will the kevlar underpants provide decent protection?

For my commutes, it would be kevlar underpants, jeans or dress pants, then armoured riding pants on top.

[gn2]

Kevlar only provides abrasion resistance.
Armour provides impact absorption and abrasion resistance.

[dkazzed]

Ok, so last night at 5:30pm I took the freeway pretending I was a PCX. Traffic is light-moderate and with no slowdowns due to volume. Used the power of Paint to help illustrate what I'm talking about.

Got on the highway with a speed limit of 100. Accelerated at a leisurely pace. Had about 1.6km to move to the left lane to continue in the through lanes. Really on a scooter I would get on the freeway at 156 St instead if you can make it out in the photo below as it's a left lane onramp directly onto the HOV lane, but that's a whole different story.

Heading onto the freeway, the flow of traffic slows down and I am able to exceed the flow. Then traffic opens up after the bridge and most people pass me while a couple of cars in the right lane do about the speed limit.

Then I get a bit of a bonus, a dual sport merges on at Brunette, below Lougheed Town Centre. She's content with maintaining 80 to 90 in the right lane to keep up with the right lane flow of traffic. Her tail light is dim and she's wearing dark clothing with a strip of non reflective white flowing from arm to arm, it's hard to see her. Her helmet is white. I follow her all the way until a bit past Burnaby Lake where I'm tired of the right lane flowing at 80 so I accelerate to 90 which is the flow of middle lane traffic at that point and pass a bunch of people in the right lane.

Where the limit drops to 80, we lose the right lane so my middle lane becomes the right, left lane becomes the middle, and the HOV turns to a general left lane, a semi decides to slow down to 70, I wait for a break in traffic to get into the middle lane which is flowing at 85km/h.



Going home, pretty much everyone is passing me. But hardly anyone is in the right lane with no one coming up behind me and the flow in front of me doing perhaps 90 to 95. The middle lane is flowing at 100, left lane and HOV lane at 110. I only stay on until Brunette so I can take the non toll bridge of Highway 1A, which is the parallel route I currently take to work. If I had continued onto the bridge, I would pretty much be following semis at 80km/h.

So on to the rush hour HOV lane commute. I would take the HOV lane all the way into Vancouver in rush hour. Rush hour traffic is normally light and brisk until the bridge as the tolls has deterred a number of people from using the bridge so they instead take 1A via 17. As soon as I get to the bridge, traffic typically flows at the speed limit, then HOV lane traffic typically flows at 40 to 80km/h all the way to Vancouver, faster than the general lanes which could flow at 10 to 70km/h.

So, do I think the PCX is a good choice for freeway commuting in my area? I would say absolutely yes.

But after following barely visible dual sport rider, I think being visible is especially important on the highway. Tape some red reflective strips onto the fender. Wear a vest or jacket with hi-vis reflective strips. Make sure your tail lights are properly illuminated, they do dim as they get old. I would say use automotive 1157 bulbs instead of 21/5W tail light bulbs if your scooter uses them. I bought super bright 1157 LEDs from a local supplier that looks almost as bright as incandescent brake lights normally running then super super bright when the brakes are activated.

[Mel46]

You asked which of the three craigslist Burgmans i would have looked at first. I would look at the 3rd one first. The reason...it is less expensive. The bikes are the same, essentially. There were no changes made to the Burgman between 2004 and 2005. 33k km is only 20,000 miles. On a bad day that would still only be a quarter of its engine life before rebuild. If it was taken care of, that engine should be humming along at that mileage with no problems. Check the books to make sure he did his oil changes.
By the way, i have a service manual for 2003 -2006 Burgman 400 in digital format, as well a a digital version of the owners manual for a 2006, which should be the ame as a 2005. Like i said, there were very few changes between 2005 and 2006 models. I think all of the changes were cosmetic.

[sendler2112]

I forgot to mention the seat works correctly on the Downtown

I found the seat of the Downtown to be very cramped.

[SECoda]

It's terrible to sit on but it lifts up high enough (and has a strong hydraulic/spring) and has more room underneath.

I forgot to mention the seat works correctly on the Downtown

I found the seat of the Downtown to be very cramped.

[dkazzed]

You asked about the valve adjustment on the 400. I had the valves adjusted when I first bought mine. The mechanic said that he loved working on a Burgman 400. Our PCX went in at the same time. We rode home on the Burgman while the PCX was still in the shop. It took the mechanic a whole 30 minutes to do the valves on my Burgman. I never had to get them adjusted again. There are a ton of YouTube videos on how to do just about everything on a Burgman. Working on it was easy. It is a single cylinder
By the way, the back brace on the seat adjusts back and forth to allow you to fit it to your comfort. The 2006 comes with a back support for the passenger. On all of the others, it is an option. However, there are even YouTube videos on how to install those too. The only thing I did not like about my Burgman was......hmmmm....I can't think of anything I didn't like about it. I purchased a large Givi top box and a tall windshield. I also purchased some RAM mounts. It comes with a power outlet in the glove box. Some owners ran wires for an additional power outlet elsewhere as well because closing the glove box door on wires could pinch them. (That didn't stop me from using Bluetooth speakers and putting my iPod in the side storage bin. When I ran my GPS, I drilled a small hole on the bottom of the glove box door and ran the usb wire through it. (Just cut a small "V" in the bottom of the door.) It has a center glove box and two smaller side enclosures, plus enough underseat storage for two helmets.

Thanks for that. I'll keep those choices in mind when I'm ready to buy. I take motorcycle lessons the end of the month including a skills test I have to pass to ride by myself and at freeway speeds. Very tempting though the older Burgman 400s.

Goes to show I can't just believe everything I randomly hear on the internet.

[dkazzed]

I'm throwing a few other choices in the mix:

2004-06 Suzuki Burgman -- a nice scooter, reliable although a little older than what I wanted to get.
Honda CBR125R - It's a sportier PCX 150, cheap to buy, attach a top case and I'm set. Would give me lots of cash left to really upgrade my gear.
2014-15 Suzuki GW250 - $200 less than the PCX 150 with current factory incentives, more performance, can get a top case/side case luggage rack, upright seating position.

Going with a motorcycle will depend on how good I am with riding one when I take motorcycle lessons at the end of the month, how much I enjoy it, and how tolerable I think it'll be for rush hour commuting every day of the year when there's no accumulation of snow or ice on the roads. And then with all five, which one I like the best.

I could add the Grom but it's so tiny. And we'll see what else is on the market when I'm ready to buy. I see a 2013 PCX 150 asking $2199 which is so very tempting.

[gn2]

Don't go geared on a small bike for commuting, you'll be constantly up and down the box which is a complete p.i.t.a.
Far better to get a scooter and simply twist and go.

[dkazzed]

Don't go geared on a small bike for commuting, you'll be constantly up and down the box which is a complete p.i.t.a.
Far better to get a scooter and simply twist and go.

Yea, my preference is still a scooter. I enjoy driving stick though even in the heaviest of traffic so for that reason I think I may enjoy riding a motorcycle too. On the other hand, when I try driving sequential shift most modern automatic cars have these days, I find them to be a pain and just end up popping the car to drive.

I honestly won't know until I take the riding lessons.

[dkazzed]

So in the most anti-climatic update ever, I put a deposit down on a used 2014 Honda CBR 125R with 1200km on it. $2700 plus $195 doc fees and taxes on top.

Took it for a test ride over lunch hour around beautiful Stanley Park:


What changed? I took riding lessons and fell in love with using a clutch and shifter. It's as fun and intuitive as driving a stick shift. I've commuted with a stick shift in the worst of traffic so in theory I know what I'm getting myself into. I'm going to do a longer test ride Thursday to make sure it'll do what I need it to do on the freeway, but I suspect it'll be about 10km/h faster than the PCX150. From the consensus I got here, a bit of extra power could mean less white knuckled commutes on the freeway. Unfortunately, the Forza was way above my budget, and the Downtown 300i was still meh to me.

I'll miss the scooter versatility, but I'll get a Shad SH40 Cargo top box for it soon.

I appreciate the advice, everyone.

[tbln930]

Cool and nice looking bike - I never owned a 125. I had a Rupp Roadster and then a trail 70 and then skipped to a Yamaha 175 Enduro which are long gone. It should be a load of fun. My buddy sure loves his Grom.