I think I need some opinions on this

[Mel46]

While I was in the military many, many years ago I injured my back. I lived with it until 1996 (20 years later). By that time the pain had gotten so bad that when I went to work it would be like having a severe migraine all day...except it was my back, not a migraine.

After going to several specialist, all of whom agreed that I had multiple collapsed discs, it was agreed that surgery was my only option. (Yes, I had been under a chiropractors care as well, and even he agreed...and you know they don't believe in surgery).

So, here is the updated version. I have now had 12 surgeries and have a spinal cord stimulator implant, plus I am taking extended release morphine. I hate being dependent on morphine so I have been actively working with my pain specialist to lower, knowing I can never get completely off of it.

Recently I was informed that the DEA and AMA had agreed that a line would be drawn in the sand at 90 mg per day for every patient on morphine, no matter how bad the pain is. I was on 120 mg per day, and that was barely enough to keep me active.

On my last visit the doctor's PA hands me a prescription for 90 mg per day and says, "live with it. It is the new requirement."

I had previously discussed dropping to 100 mg per day to see if I could tolerate it, with no guaranty that I could handle it, since my quality of life was dropping like a rock (I haven't been on my bike for months now).

Now, at 90 mg per day I am lucky to stay out of bed 4 hours per day. So they gave me some low dose morphine tablets for short term break through pain. (2 mg.) I keep track of what I take. If I take 4 of those a day my wife says I a high and that THEY win.

Who is they and what do they win? If she had a severe migraine and took something I would not say that of her, so what she says makes no sense to me.

Should I look for a new doctor or just live in misery, knowing that every pain specialist will have this same problem, but hopefully not treat their long term patients this way.(I have been this doctor's patient for 20 years but his practice just merged with a much bigger one.)

[Old Grinner]

I'll chime in here Mel but I can't speak from any experience like you've got.

Long story short, it sounds like you are going to have to deal with a bit more pain. I know that's not what you want to hear.

Pain, as you already well know, is just the body's way of telling you something is very wrong.

If it were me I'd observe what activities seem to aggravate it and what kind of behavior allows you to get through the day a little better.

There could come a time when logic may dictate that you give up riding your scooter. But that doesn't mean you have to give up your interest in "riding". You can still remember all the "good times" and attend motorcycle shows and races and flea markets and stuff just to keep in the loop.

Have you tried acupuncture or anything like that? Just a thought.

Sorry to hear about your chronic suffering. . ..

[Jge64]

Many of my friends are in the same predicament and yes it has to do with new opioid laws. I would post on a couple opioids sites and medical sites vs here. Also get a second /third opinion. No doc should just throw you the pills and say "it is what it is". Some docs will stretch law and interpret law a lot different than others. I have a friend that's on extended Oxy, and it took him 2 pain docs to get satisfaction and a decent ongoing supply. I'd be finding another specialist.

[Oldie]

At least you have a pain specialist who understands your condition and knows what you're going through. I've never had to use their services myself so not sure how they can help but they must be aware of the difficulties the new regulations bring. To an outsider, dropping from 120 to 90 doesn't sound like a big deal but it must be, otherwise you wouldn't have posted and you have my sympathy. I keep hearing that some of the popular drugs of our youth are effective in tackling pain, such as that caused by MS, so that might be an avenue worth exploring, subject to legality and advice from your doctor of course. maybe it's a very bad idea to "mix your drinks", as I suspect that it might be, thereby causing even greater problems.

If nothing else, you're openly talking about it and hopefully that starts a conversation which leads to a clearer understanding of possible solutions. You have my support anyway.

[easyrider]

Pain pills are not a good option. Did the doctor offer you any alternatives like a different type of surgery, or perhaps a fusion of the vertebrates. I know this is not a good option but if it ends the pain and suffering it might be the best outcome for you.There are nerve blocks that they might be able to use to ease the pain.. You need to see other doctors that are more proactive in helping patients not throwing pills at them.. You must be on Medicare as the new procedure for pain in the elderly on pension is going to be "aspirin" .. they got to save $ somewhere you know with the debt we are in.. Guess what its you my friend... Pucker up and get ready. All kidding aside wish you the best ..

[Old Grinner]

Hey Mel - It only hurts when you laugh right?

Hope not . . ..

If you need some humor right now this may be just what the Doctor ordered.

They say "Laughter is the best medicine. . ..".

[Mel46]

In that 20 year span I have had every kind of treatment you can think of, including acupuncture, nerve blocks, radio frequency, fusion, etc.

Interestingly enough, the pain is from all of the surgeries now. Some how the nerves did not grow back together like they should, so now the doctor is having a problem determining how to treat it. If, for example, my pain is to the left of my lower back, the nerve to "block" could be in the middle or to the right, so it is a mission when I go in for radio frequencies or nerve blocks because they have to find the offending nerves now. The nerves have gone rogue.

This also means that there is no simple solution. If it were then all of my past procedures would have worked, or at least one of them. My pain specialist and I were on the hunt for the rogue nerve just before his business merged. Now someone else must be running the show because my doctor spends maybe 3 minutes with me before running to the next room/patient.

I have never seen that particular PA before but if I had I would have walked away long ago. She could have cared less. The careful plan my doctor and I had worked out went out the window.

Dropping from 120 mg to 90 mg does not sound like a lot, until you look at my history in which I started off at 250 mg. I have worked hard to get as low as I can on this stuff, but at some point the effectiveness of the morphine will not equal the pain itself. I am at that point, so any amount less than the 120 mg is not handling the pain sufficently. The objective was to see how far down I can stand to go and work from that knowledge. Not any more. Now it is up to me to find my own solution. How does that help solve the opioid problems? I won't go after illegal opioid, but that does not mean others won't. The doctor can now say that he did whatever DEA wanted, but the patient is left out on the curb to find their own solution.

Pain is nobody's friend, and there are a lot of service connected injuries that the doctor's are now walking away from without fully resolving. What do they think the outcome of that will be?? They are trying to solve the opioid overdose problem by covering their own a$$, and sticking their head in the sand.

[easyrider]

Is your pain specialist a neurologist??Maybe thats where you need to go and get a consult.

[rvkssl]

Hi Mel,

I've spent a lot of time on simulator training for the C-130 in Tampa, the hotel we've used to stay was next to the the laser spine institute, i saw people in wheelchairs in the morning and walking during the happy hour after they went for a treatment there.
You might know that dutch people are very down to earth but i saw some amazing things happen there and also talked with some very positive patients. Maybe it's something for you ? here is the website : https://www.laserspineinstitute.com/tampa/

Cheers and good luck!
Ronald.

[87112]

I relieve back aches and soreness by hanging upside down everyday on an inversion table. It works. Been doing this for over 10 years.

[Mel46]

Sometimes I wish I could hang upside down for a while. It would probably take the pressure off of the spine. However, my pain specialist has warned me that if the work that has been done on my back gets screwed up this time, there is no going back and redoing it. (Quite a few years ago my son, in a fit of anger, attacked me and the end result was plates and screws being pulled loose in my back, requiring yet another surgery.)

Now my age is playing a major part in the healing. As you get older you find that you can't do as much as you use to. Everyone has this problem. Muscles that use to do something start to atrophy. I try to keep active but I know that I can not do a lot of what I use to do. That also means some of my back muscles are no longer as strong as they once were, and that means less is holding me upright and helping me to turn and twist and bend and do all the stuff I took for granted that I could do. I am still more limber than many young people, but I pay for it in pain afterwards. Getting old sucks.

[kramnala58]

From what I hear you saying, it sounds like there isn't a "fix" for your back problem, but it is effective pain management that you are looking for at this time. I don't know what the laws in Georgia are Georgia, but have you considered medicinal marijuana? It seems everyone who wants to smoke it can come up with a medical reason to justify it, but it sounds like you have a legitimate need that needs to be addressed. Just at thought.

[Old Grinner]

Getting old sucks.

It's multidimensional. It can suck in a variety of ways . . .. Better to maintain that fighting spirit and keep giving it the good old college try. Easier said than done I know . . ..

[Mel46]

I dont believe marijuana is legal in Georgia. I am beginning to believe that I will have to live with this pain and expect limited help, as many other veterans have also discovered. What bothers me the most, aside from the pain, is the attitude that others including my doctor have toward it. My wife seems to blame me for being in too much pain to enjoy some things she wants to do with me. The doctor seems to believe that it is up to the patient to manage his own pain, since the doctor is managing the red tape. One of my sons blames me for being in too much pain to join their family get togethers whenever they ask us to come. My daughter in Washington state claims that I am deliberately not moving to her state because I dont love her, when in fact that state now outlawed morphine. It is as though everyone thinks I had the accident that injured me just for the fun of getting to be in pain 24 hours a day.

[fish]

Mel,
Life can be a b_tch sometimes.
Could not help but notice how angry your posts have been these past few months.
I understand now why you are angry and depressed.


There is a great group of folks available here to chat with on this forum.
However, I was thinking you could really benefit from talking with people who are going through the same thing you are experiencing.

How's that going to help?, you say.
Well, years ago I worked in a store-front counseling clinic lead by, and for, combatants & medical personnel who had served in Vietnam.
During that decade - the VA was known mainly for killing or maiming vets. Getting these dudes and Nurses (medicos had their own group) in the door was not easy - so the clinics were street store-front clinics and were manned only by actual combat veterans.
During a series of evening group sessions these veterans shared their common experiences... in-country, and back in the world. Things which civilians (wives, husbands, parents, bosses) could not begin to fathom.


Sharing your story with people who are having the same experience is very helpful, Mel.



"11 Tips for coping with chronic pain:"
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/g ... nic-pain#1

I hope you will consider joining a pain management group, Mel. You owe it to yourself ,and to your (deteriorating) relations with your family.

Fish

[kramnala58]

Mel,
Life can be a b_tch sometimes.
Could not help but notice how angry your posts have been these past few months.
I understand now why you are angry and depressed.
There is a great group of folks available here to chat with on this forum.
However, I was thinking you could really benefit from talking with people who are going through the same thing you are experiencing.
How's that going to help?, you say.
Well, years ago I worked in a store-front counseling clinic lead by, and for, combatants & medical personnel who had served in Vietnam.
During that decade - the VA was known mainly for killing or maiming vets. Getting these dudes and Nurses (medicos had their own group) in the door was not easy - so the clinics were street store-front clinics and were manned only by actual combat veterans.
During a series of evening group sessions these veterans shared their common experiences... in-country, and back in the world. Things which civilians (wives, husbands, parents, bosses) could not begin to fathom.
Sharing your story with people who are having the same experience is very helpful, Mel.

"11 Tips for coping with chronic pain:"
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/g ... nic-pain#1
I hope you will consider joining a pain management group, Mel. You owe it to yourself ,and to your (deteriorating) relations with your family.
Fish

+1

[Old Grinner]

I hope you will consider joining a pain management group, Mel. You owe it to yourself ,and to your (deteriorating) relations with your family.

Fish

Excellent suggestion . . . +1 here also!

[Mel46]

I know that there is a group at my pain specialist's location, but the ones I have seen going into the meetings don't look like they have ever taken care of themselves, and their pain seems to be caused by their extreme weight. What I probably need to do is find a veterans group. Thank you for the suggestion. I will look into it.

[Jge64]

Watch hanging upside down. It works for many people it doesn't work for others. I bought a teeter hangup inversion machine three years ago used it religiously for a summer, and in the fall I detached my retina. My ophthalmologist said it has happened twice with other people either using a hangup machine, or doing inversion yoga. Some people absolutely can't stand to have the ocular pressure increased, I am one of them. After a long three month convalescence an operation, my eye is fine. But I'll never get on a hangup machine again.

I read every post here and I don't think Any of Mel's posts have been angry. And all this stuff about find a support group, use marijuana, obviously no one here has had major back pain. When nerves are miscommunicating as in Mel's case, no support group or marijuana is going to help physically damaged nerves. You either fix those nerves, are you deaden them. In mel's case with multiple operations,It takes opioids. Keep looking mel, I think you'll find a doctor that will prescribe you what you need.

[Mel46]

My wife and I just discussed this over lunch and she pointed out that the son who has no patience with my pain was never in the active military.

He went into the Marine Corp reserves and did their training. Then he was a weekend warrior whose specialty was "counting bullets", as we use to say when I was in the military. At the end of his enlistment his rank was equal to nine, and it took me 12 years of active duty to reach that. I EARNED my rank. He fancies himself a soldier but his a$$ was never on the line. He got out just before they started sending reservists out to fight. Any pain he has came from working around his house.

Remembering that helps me feel better. Still, there are a lot of people out there like him. I just have to try to ignore their taunts.