The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Mel46 wrote:Make sure you have no cracks in the casing from the center stand on that new one. That one major problem on the 2011 model was the downfall of many a fine scootering day. No one wants to go through the effort of replacing the engine only to find that the casing had a Crack because of the center stand.

As far as I can tell there's no crankcase damage. Looking at the repair it's looks like the lug didn't break off just cracked along the lug not on the crank case, normally with casing cracks if it's got even the slightest leak you will see it. Having now looked into this issue I'm convinced it's a combination of poor design, lack a maintenance and probably is only an issue in wet climates. Like most things scooter they tend to be not that well cared for as they are seen as cheap workhorses, used in all weathers, often run by people on budgets who are not really "bikers" more car drivers looking for a cheaper/faster way to get to work .

Bikes generally need more TLC than cars.

Well that sucks.

I think I'll go check my oil....

X2 after seeing all this. . ..

4 to 5K miles noted on the coolant going low as well as Homie mentioned.

iceman wrote: I know, I meant after checking which may have been the reason oil was lost (heat, evaporation, not sure). This is the 1st time oil went down as much as it has in 3 yr's riding, it was fine full level on the end of the dip-stick 1 month ago (when not screwed in!) but today with hardly any use on the scoot the stick was dry. No visible leaks as no oil down the scoot or on the ground, so strange.

I've started tracking oil loss between 4,000km changes - was 60ml last time, and I'm due to give it another change this weekend so will be interesting to see how consistent it is.

In your case, it's very interesting - other than sabotage, the only other thing I can think of is something that's caused the consumption to dramatically increase and burn it off. Just wondering if you'll be looking for anything internal that might explain more?

These little engines work hard, for their size, very. I've recently bought a Paiggio X10 350 for commuting into work, it's a four stoke engine and I'm told is a Honda unit. The bike has a rev counter at 30mph the revs are 5k that's high for a single at 80mph they're 8k, it also has an oil pressure warning light but the manual still tells you to check every ride, as does the PCX. The reason oil evaporation and oil level is critical as you can see!

Oil is used to cool the underside of the piston crown so you will get some oil lost to evaporation, the oil must be fully synth and good quality checked at regular intervals.

It's been almost 700 miles since my last oil change (actually it was the first oil change and I've got about 1300 miles logged now) and no apparent loss of oil when I measured yesterday. Level is still at the high point and I don't screw the dip stick in when I check it. Wiped and checked again. . .same result. I notice that it's important to try and get the dip stick inserted without touching the sides of the fill port. If you do it can result in an ambiguous reading due to trace amounts of oil getting picked up on the stick as you try to insert and remove. I usually make 3 attempts just to make sure see is believing.

I would add to my last a post regarding evaporation, this will be a very small amount in a healthy engine using quality oil so don't go worrying about it too much, just check regularly. This will obviously depend to a big extent on the mileage your bike is doing, the higher the daily mileage the more often you should check, Honda recommend every ride this is an umbrella to cater for high mileage and for the fact there's no low oil pressure warning. I'd say (just my opinion) once a week is sufficient for your average user.

If you don't check and allow the oil to drop, below recommended levels the remaining oil has to work harder, thus accelerating the evaporation, which will just keep increasing as more evaporates.

All that said what happened to my lads bike is purely neglect on his part, for not checking the oil.

Techno wrote:I've recently bought a Paiggio X10 350 for commuting into work, it's a four stoke engine and I'm told is a Honda unit.

I think whoever told you that is mistaken.
The 330cc wet clutch motor used in the X10 is exclusive to Piaggio.

I dunno about the concept of oil evaporating. How can that happen? It's not water or a substance that can change from liquid to vapor. I thought the purpose of the PVC valve or similar crankcase vent was to allow the water vapor resulting from fuel-air combustion (that got past the rings) to steam off and not mix with the oil.

gn2 wrote:

Techno wrote:I've recently bought a Paiggio X10 350 for commuting into work, it's a four stoke engine and I'm told is a Honda unit.

I think whoever told you that is mistaken.
The 330cc wet clutch motor used in the X10 is exclusive to Piaggio.

It doesn't have a wet clutch mate all X10's have the same drive as PCX.

springer1 wrote:I dunno about the concept of oil evaporating. How can that happen? It's not water or a substance that can change from liquid to vapor. I thought the purpose of the PVC valve or similar crankcase vent was to allow the water vapor resulting from fuel-air combustion (that got past the rings) to steam off and not mix with the oil.

That's why there's engine breather system that pipes oil vapour back to the air box, to be burnt.

Err no, one of the things the X10/BV 330 motor is famous for is its wet multiplate clutch.
The clutch is bathed in the final drive oil at the wheel end of the gubbins.

gn2 wrote:Err no, one of the things the X10/BV 330 motor is famous for is its wet multiplate clutch.
The clutch is bathed in the final drive oil at the wheel end of the gubbins.

Yes you're correct sorry my mistake was thinking of the wrong end As I said in my introduction post things scooter are all new to me, engineering and bike engines yes, but I'm learning fast, all be it from a rather unfortunate and avoidable occurrence!

This doesn't stop the engine (not the drive) being a Honda unit, although I have my doubts. That said now days manufactures often use others units under licence especially smaller units. Anyway doesn't really matter just used it as an example of a scooter motor that's got low oil pressure switch.

The X10 is one beautiful thing, I completely fell in love with it when launched but there wasn't a dealer for more than 100 miles at the time so didn't buy one.
The X10 had issues with lack of waterproofing around the fusebox causing electrical failure and there was a modification to the brake master cylinders.
Initially the master cylinders were to be replaced as part of routine maintenance at cripplingly short intervals but after a while (and many complaints) the master cylinder was revised to a more durable version.
If yours is a used one it could be worth checking if it was affected and if the change to the new type was done.

gn2 Yes it's what I consider the best looking and equipped scooter for the money.

I've had mine apart, sorted the fuse box, and checked everything, mines a second hand 2012 bike, not had any issues the the brakes it was always dealer serviced (not that counts for anything) so I would have imagined if there was a recall or replacement they would have been done. Mine is the later ABS/ASR version the first wasn't so it could be those your referring I know they changed a lot of stuff on my version.

That said I've had a intermittent (happened twice in 1000 miles in the sunny/dry) cutting out the bike would just cut out, no starter nothing then within a few seconds it would fire and run as normal. That's what prompted me in stripping the bike, I put it down to an old plug (dealer has obviously not changed it from new, the last service being 7k) I changed it but only this week it happened again same conditions. Turns out there's a replacement plug cap, only real difference I can see is the colour and shape of the rubber where it connect to the plug, the old being green and the new black and larger. I fitted it only this morning, time will tell.

AFAIK the official UK X10 has always been ABS-ASR. but I think there was a non ABS version elsewhere.
Last time I looked the X10 had disappeared off the UK Piaggio site which is a shame.

They stopped selling it or importing it at least. Think even in the rest of the world it's just stock. From what I gather it to do with sales and having to upgrade the engine to meet Euro 8 or whatever just not worth the investment.

It's all pretty much back together (pictures to follow) engine is clean inside and appears to have been looked after, well oil changes at least. The rear brake was seized and there was virtually no oil in the rear hub. Having now got to the stage of servicing the bike (he was on the way to me when it seized) the front right fork leg is weeping. I'll be replacing both hopefully tomorrow if the parts arrive.

Can't seem to find what weight oil is in them anyone know? I suspect it's 10w.

Have you tried an improvised seal mate on the fork leg?
Could save you a lot of hassle.
I've used this method and it works a treat so long as the fork stanchion isn't pitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5L2K2PXGtA

That fork seal fix only really works if you catch it in time, one in this bike was well shot, I never do just one always both, these are now all sorted as is the bike.

It's running a treat, just got to change the cheaper oil I've used to clean out the old engine oil and refill with fully synth, he's then going to clean/polish it and that's that. I'll post some pictures of the tomorrow, after another full day I've had enough and off for a beer.

When I used the seal fixing trick, the oil was dripping off the bottom of the fork leg.
Passed its MoT the week after I sorted it.
Then I sold it...
There's no substitute for a proper fix

Beer sounds well earned, enjoy