The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

k2apache6.0 wrote:

chicaboo wrote:I think you can save on the valve springs if not raising the rev limit, BPT can chime in on that one since he's been there.
I bet the CM/Takegawa route sounds easy now eh?

TBH yes, somewhat, a lot of fuss and money for the extra 3-4 bhp I'm after.
Webike has a bunch of Takegawa BBK's in different variations for V1, V2, and V3 PCX's worth a look, but now I'm wondering about the CM kit by itself lol, nothing extra.
This Takagawa kit looks good and has the cam, pushing the limits price wise but...
http://japan.webike.net/products/21226842.html

And this as the cheap version without cam although is it worth the extra over the CM kit?
http://japan.webike.net/products/21226843.html

If you are upgrading to a performance camshaft, especially the Yuminashi one, you MUST have upgraded springs to handle the extra lift.
Daniel is not wrong. The stock 150 ECU is very problematic with the stock map. Installing a bigger injector will never be right. I saw that on the dyno myself. So you have to get a controller in order to get it to run right.
But I don't understand, you want bolt on. This is bolt on. It's not you doing the adjustments, it's the dyno guys. Just drop off everything, have them install it and dyno it to the best possible outcome and take it back.
Plus drop the idea that cheap will come with quality, I've worked on over 10 bikes and always the guys trying to save as much as possible ended up with the thinnest wallets at the end of the day.

Hi BPT794,
Well there's the rub, Chicaboo and I had hoped we could do the work ourselves as much as possible but yes the more I look into this the more your route would make sense despite the expense. There's a firm locally here ( http://www.blaiscycle.com/ ) who do that exact sort of thing, they did my friends Kawi Z-Rex. They do BBK's, performance mods, the lot and they're genius' at what they do.
No way around the controller situation needing dyno runs to tune it properly at all throttle settings realistically. The $550 Yumi kit would be great but with the labour on building and the controller tuning/dyno time we would probably end up doubling that figure. Not cheap myself but this is pushing the limits of sensibility in my op as it's almost 1/2 the value of my scoot.
Sounds corny, but I'd love to hear from someone that had installed the Taiwanese CM 170cc kit without any further mods at all to hear about the results, reliability, or 'dream on' to have had it dyno'd and checked for fueling/mixture/performance issues

If you go CM, forget the 170cc and go for the 175cc kit.

chicaboo wrote:If you go CM, forget the 170cc and go for the 175cc kit.

I might have chat with Blais cycle over here, they could even fab a turbo for it, they can even flash stock ECU's, nothing these guys can't do. Take a look at their website. Their currently building a Hyabusa project with 700-750 bhp lol.
http://www.blaiscycle.com/

Flashing stock pcx ECU? I highly doubt that but if they can, it will be a dream.
The thing about performance parts is they need to work together. If you just drop in a bigger piston and don't feed it enough fuel and air it will be at best weaker than its potential and at worst FUBAR.
If you think it's too much a price tag, and I don't mean this as an insult, stay stock, stock is much easier. No worries about anything. Stock is the best combination possible. I'm still struggling to make any big bore kit as hassle free as stock. Deviating from stock means you will have to sacrifice something in the process. Over here I sacrifice noise level and price tag for power and reliability.

Fair comment.
According to their website they can flash stock ECU's, not necessarily any ECU, I really don't I know until I run over and have a chat. We'll see, there are several options including what will eventually be Chicaboos mix. Takegawa, CM, and Yumi kits all at different levels and pricing. I'm not above going $550 for the Yumi 'streetable' kit, just the dyno time and tuning necessary afterward is somewhat off putting. That's why I'm still on the fence as yet, waiting to be convinced it's worth the time and money though my heart wishes it were so.

I actually have a fuel map for a PCX150 upgrading to 164cc with yuminashi a type injector if you're interested. Just send me 15 bucks as the dyno fee I had to pay over here to have that map.
Or you can let the dyno guys do their jobs. I highly doubt they can flash the PCX ECM because it's meant to be closed system but still worth a try to let them take a look at it.
Again, I really think that you are overthinking this a bit. If you have access to a dyno service just let them do their job and pick up the bike later. From a tuner's point of view, and I can safely call myself a tuner after more than 10 PCXs this is as much plug and play as you can get. I did not have access to a dyno for the better half of last year, tuning in blind or ass tuning on the road. Having access to a dyno is everything.
If all that still makes your head spin than perhaps you should take a look at possible racing variators etc. Or just buy the bigger throttle body and install it on a stock 150. That would still work.

A buddy and I went for a ride on our PCXs to the mountains for lunch this afternoon.
This gave me an opportunity to see how bad my fuel economy was going up the hills...
Long story short, after some more tuning I'm now only using the first fuel zone spread across the entire RPM range for 14-12.5:1 AFR.
For reference, stock AFR is about 14.7:1 in closed loop and targets 12:1 in open loop. So probably a little more ideal than stock now.
The pod filter and bad clutch are slowing down my bottom end speed, so tomorrow I'm hoping to do the big intake tube mod at least.
I'm hoping the longer intake runner will sort out the low end power and make it quieter for the most part.
After I've done the BBK and have it's final tune, I may get one of those Tsukigi exhausts to quieten it down a bit and get a better tone...

"First fuel zone"?
Meaning what exactly?

My SKU of the Dobeck EJK has two fuel adjustment zones and two trigger points (these shift the fuel zones around).
From that you can have three effective zones if used with the o2 sensor connected.
If you run the o2 sensor, you will be stoich all the way up to 80% throttle, so the last two zones would be pretty thin...
Typically if you run the o2 sensor connected you only use the the second fuel zone to control open loop (too rich for me).

I currently have my o2 sensor disconnected and have the first fuel zone running through the whole RPM range.
I have found the second fuel zone to be quite a bit richer than the first fuel zone, so I've effectively disabled it.
The A Type 6 holes (CBR150R) injector is way overkill for just a throttle body upgrade, so I'm pulling all my fuel.
Note that I get two error codes on my digital dash because I've disconnected the o2 sensor...

If you only do a TB+B Type IM+cam upgrade, you could probably get away with the stock injector and the Dobeck?
Since the Dobeck requires an AFR gauge & WB sensor, I would recommend the Innovate LC2 if you don't have those.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to the BBK+cam install so that I can be done with the tuning. For a little while at least.

Update:

Today I finally got stuck in and modified my airbox for the Yuminashi 31mm big tube air intake.
Before I got started I thought I'd clear the error codes and reset the ECU, but the scoot was dead.
So I hooked up the Lithium charger and left it to top up while I worked on the scoot.

Anyhow, after lots of stuffing around I finally got the airbox modded and the intake tube trimmed to suit.
I whacked it all together and thought after a few hours the battery should be ready to go, nope...
After checking a few things, I grabbed a tester light and found that the battery wouldn't even register.

Hmm, 3 month old battery and it's stuffed already. Now I get to find out how good the warranty is...
Anyhow, since I can't test my handy work from today, you can all rejoice at this attached photo and behold.

Oh yeah, the outer side snorkel has been removed too, since it's so much smaller than the new air intake tube.
Last time I removed the snorkel it sounded like a diesel tractor, I can't wait to hear what it sounds like now.

Wooo, AWAB stainless hose clamp, only the best, break out the seldom used 7mm nut driver.
So this job is at what stage now, stock bore but bigger throttle body, injector, and air tube? I'm sure you'll be testing and tuning this setup, but with the BBK installed won't any current observations be somewhat obsoleted.

Great pic! Really gives a noob something to add to the already outstanding resources on this Forum to refer to when doing surgery. Thanks!

BTW all batteries are not alike. I found out the hard way once and bought a bargain brand and it went south in a month. Couldn't believe it. I continue to be a YUASA loyal customer now. . .. I'm not saying they are perfect but in all of my riding years I've never had one let me down without a preliminary period of fade first where top off charging would become more frequent.

k2apache6.0 wrote:Wooo, AWAB stainless hose clamp, only the best, break out the seldom used 7mm nut driver.
So this job is at what stage now, stock bore but bigger throttle body, injector, and air tube? I'm sure you'll be testing and tuning this setup, but with the BBK installed won't any current observations be somewhat obsoleted.

Yeah, that's the clamp Yuminashi provide, it's a lot better than the POS clamp that came with my red pod filter.
It doesn't creep too much as you tighten it up, either. I just used a Philips screwdriver since that gets the job done.

Stock engine with:
(Stage 1)
- "straight-thru" canon style exhaust;
- K&N panel filter;
(Stage 1.5)
- Yuminashi big tube air intake with modded airbox;
- CBR125R 31mm TB with custom throttle cable bracket;
- 31mm A type intake manifold;
- (A type) CBR150R injector;
(Stage 2)
- Dobeck EJK interceptor.

Without being able to have a test ride after the big tube and airbox mod, none of that makes much power.
It's all intended as supporting mods to make more power from the BBK and cam when that all goes in.
I had a drop in power up to the mid rev range with the 31mm TB and the useless temporary pod filter.
Pod filters are good for high revs, but longer intake runners are better for a balanced spread of power delivery.
As it is, I would like the intake runner even longer, and I might add a short section of aluminium pipe in the airbox?
In addition to that, I would like to make a bigger snorkel for the outer side of the airbox as a sound resonator.
The interesting thing now is how my tune will be affected by changing the intake from a pod back to the airbox?

The mods will definitely by obsoleted by the BBK and cam, but I wanted to know for myself and share the experience.
I'm not going to do it, but I suspect these mods would be worthwhile if you did a cam and high-comp piston only.
Obviously I don't want to keep opening up engine, and I will do all my red list items in one hit when I open it up.

In addition to the CM BBK and Takegawa cam, I'm installing a high-comp Yuminashi piston and thin copper gasket.
This will raise the compression ratio to something a bit higher than stock I expect, but how much, I have no idea.
Because the CR is going to be increased, I will be added a #9 sparkplug to help cool the engine a bit better.

If after all that I'm not satisfied, I might really consider a 35mm throttle body from a Forza 300?

PCX150Rider wrote:Great pic! Really gives a noob something to add to the already outstanding resources on this Forum to refer to when doing surgery. Thanks!

BTW all batteries are not alike. I found out the hard way once and bought a bargain brand and it went south in a month. Couldn't believe it. I continue to be a YUASA loyal customer now. . .. I'm not saying they are perfect but in all of my riding years I've never had one let me down without a preliminary period of fade first where top off charging would become more frequent.

Thanks, you're the third person apart from myself to participate in this thread, so it's nice to see some appreciation.

Yeah, my original Yuasa battery lasted over 4 years before it needed regular charging and was replaced with the lithium.
I might just buy a 160CCA AGM battery this week so I can get moving again, since I doubt the warranty process will be quick.

And just for something to do, I put the stock windscreen back on. Mainly to reduce the wind noise I got from the tall screen...
Also, at some point I need to look at that clutch and see why I'm getting dull launches. The clutch engages too early it seems.
This has me thinking that one of clutch shoe springs has come loose or broken. I have a spare whole HD clutch I will test with.

Good news: The place where I bought the lithium battery has already sent me a pre-paid return shipping label so I can return the dead battery for a warranty claim.

Good news: The place where I bought the lithium battery has already sent me a pre-paid return shipping label so I can return the dead battery for a warranty claim.

Life is good!

They have great customer support. . ..

I'd continue to do business with them in the future.

Where did you buy the battery, was it in Oz?

I'd like to add them to my list of possible suppliers. Probably won't need one soon, I've been running a lithium for 18months now with no problems, and still have the Yuasa on trickle charge, but it's always good to know a reliable supplier.

JohnL wrote:Where did you buy the battery, was it in Oz?

I'd like to add them to my list of possible suppliers. Probably won't need one soon, I've been running a lithium for 18months now with no problems, and still have the Yuasa on trickle charge, but it's always good to know a reliable supplier.

MX Store Australia from Burleigh Heads:
http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/mxstoreaustralia or https://www.mxstore.com.au/

For reference, our battery is a YTX5L-BS. They have more options on the eBay store.

chicaboo wrote:Update:

Today I finally got stuck in and modified my airbox for the Yuminashi 31mm big tube air intake.
Before I got started I thought I'd clear the error codes and reset the ECU, but the scoot was dead.
So I hooked up the Lithium charger and left it to top up while I worked on the scoot.

Anyhow, after lots of stuffing around I finally got the airbox modded and the intake tube trimmed to suit.
I whacked it all together and thought after a few hours the battery should be ready to go, nope...
After checking a few things, I grabbed a tester light and found that the battery wouldn't even register.

Hmm, 3 month old battery and it's stuffed already. Now I get to find out how good the warranty is...
Anyhow, since I can't test my handy work from today, you can all rejoice at this attached photo and behold.

Oh yeah, the outer side snorkel has been removed too, since it's so much smaller than the new air intake tube.
Last time I removed the snorkel it sounded like a diesel tractor, I can't wait to hear what it sounds like now.

When will you get off your lazy butt and install the bbk like finally?
I use water plumbing tube for the air intake.