The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

For ALL of us PCX Riders.... I will be happy to share my knowledge with everybody... I live in Thailand..!!!! PCX made in Vietnam... go figure this one out... So, with $80,000 baht PCX and over $100,000 baht trying to get the best out of my little PCX...

And LOST $$$$ $15,000 to $20,000 baht of worthless bolt on 'Go Fast' parts that ended up going directly into the trash...

So, I can speak wisely here... so, you do not make the same mistakes that I did.. I am happy to share my knowledge (mistakes) with you...

So, for Fuel Controllers... I would guess "After You Bolt-On Exhaust" - right..???

So, now you want richen it up a little bit because of the increase in Air Flow... well - the key word here is AFR... Air Fuel Ratio...

Maybe you know - maybe not... Stock AFR is 14.7... Nothing you can do to change it... Stock narrow band O2 sensor is set... 14.7...

The Honda ECU unit is about the Very Best in the industry... Honda already did all the homework in the design of the ECU trying to get the most from the 150 cc engine... and set AFR to 14.7 (Lean) to pass emissions tests... and keep "Horsepower"..!!!!

Just a little more info for you... there is nothing wrong with the stock Honda ECU unit... it is read the exhaust gases at 3,000 times per second... this is 3 milliseconds... making adjustments to the fuel mixture... and responding this fast... ""Oh Hey""".. best in the business...

The "ONLY" problem with the stock ECU unit is the narrow band O2 sensor and the AFR at 14.7.... Sure - passes California Emissions test... But - To lean to fully develop maximum horsepower...

So, leave the stock ECU unit lone... don't do anything for fool around with this... it is already the very best you can buy...

So, now for the "Good News"....!!!! Remember AFR... Air Fuel Ratio.... 13.9 AFR or maybe 14.1 AFR....???

Well... listen... and listen good... Here we go - go - go...

Sure - everybody knows DynoJet and Powercommander... these names represent POWER and Go Fast.... Well, DynoJet has decided NOT to make a PowerCommander for the PCX... You can ask "WHY...??"

Well… DynoJet did in fact make a PowerCommander for the PCX… But after 1,000 of hours at the track testing… DynoJet could not get any better power performance out of the stock ECU…

Leading to the Honda stock ECU is the best in the industry…!!!

Therefore DynoJet decide at this time (listen up)… decided NOT to make a Powercommander for the PCX… since DynoJet could not get any increase in Horsepower….

(again) Just a little more info for you… but far more technical than you need to know… but, anyway… the Honda stock ECU and the narrowband O2 sensor… the technical term is “Closed Loop”….The Honda stock after idle clicks into a “Closed Loop” system… and the stock O2 sensor holds your AFR at 14.7….

So… for the “”GOOD NEWS””””..!!!!!!!!!!!!

DynoJet decided to make a WideBand 2…!!!!

Yes, DynoJet makes a Wideband O2 sensor for the PCX…!!!!

It is absolutely the Very Best in the performance products for the PCX..!!!! And completely different… the AFR is programmable… YES – with the Wideband 2… you can program your AFR…

I say different because it is Not a so called “Map” unit…

Remember when I said the Honda stock ECU runs in “Closed Loop”… and stock narrowband O2 sensor is 14.7… So, darn lean – and after bolt-on exhaust… extremely lean…

Well – with the DynoJet Wideband 2… You ONLY program the Wideband O2 sensor to 13.9 AFR… and let your bike run..!!!!!

Now you have (so called tricked) your stock to 13.9 AFR is what the stock ECU must hold your bike too… and not the 14.7….

Did I mention…EASY….!!!!!

And since DynoJet is the top industry leader in Performance and develop more Horsepower… when DynoJet decides NOT to make a PowerCommander for the PCX… do I need to say more…

Now… program the Wideband 2… Chris a DnyoJet set my AFR for me to 13.9 AFR… and WOW…!!! First time… I can accelerate going ‘up hill’… so, for me 13.9 AFR is perfect…

Programming the Wideband 2 is achieved with the DynoJet POD 300…

Or if you are like me… and just want the best running bike on the street… and you know sure – your bike is running great… DnyoJet recommends AFR of 13.9.. just leave it to them for their knowledge…

If you have bolted on a exhaust system and want to correct your AFR…

All you need is the DynoJet WideBand 2…!!!

http://dynojetwb2.com/Default.aspx
http://dynojetwb2.com/Default.aspx

Don't want to be a nasty no sayer with very little tech knowledge but I have read that the guys supposedly
re chipping their diesel pickups have done nothing more than add an 18 cent resistor to fool the ECM that it is running lean? no wonder they smoke like hell

Hi ThailandPCX,

I appreciate your time in posting your experience here. If I may, I have some questions.

Is the wideband EGO from the exhaust connected to the Wideband 2 control unit or just to the AFR gauge display?
Do you disconnect the stock narrowband lambda EGO, or is it intercepted by the Wideband 2 control unit to output a corrected signal?
Or does the Wideband 2 control unit only read the wideband EGO and output a corrected narrow lambda value back to the stock ECU?
Have you performed a before and after dyno run to confirm how much performance has been increased?

I have a Jaycar Digital Fuel Adapter (DFA) kit I made many years ago with a hand controller that can intercept a narrowband EGO and make 127 points of adjustment between 0-1V (7.8mV intervals?) on the output for a blanket correction to the AFR the same way this Dynojet device does. However, my device requires that I use a wideband EGO and gauge for monitoring, but it is not linked to the DFA but run in parallel for tuning and monitoring.

This setup sounds very good for tuning around intake and exhaust mods, and may even be sufficient for certain BBK if you don't have inconsistent fueling like with a high compression BBK.

I might have to give my DFA a go before installing my low compression BBK. I've got all the parts, I just need an exhaust shop to weld a bung onto my header before I can do any testing. The best part of this setup is that you can do road tuning without the need for a dyno.

Relic: this is not harmful to the scooter if the tune is kept within safe margins with a suitable AFR.

You abandon your stock narrowband O2 sensor and cut the wire... you don't want 14.7 AFR... it is too lean and you do not develop any horsepower... Honda had to set the AFR to 14.7 to pass emissions tests... and reached a happy medium for horsepower...

The new DnyoJet Wideband2 and O2 Sensor takes over control of your stock ECU unit... since the stock Honda ECU is the best in the industry... it reads exhaust gases at 3000 times per second... the stock ECU make fuel/air changes every 3 milliseconds...

Your stock ECU unit runs in "Closed Loop".... meaning that is holds your AFR constant... closed... no varying...

You only want to tell your stock ECU unit to hold your AFR at 13.9... This is what the DynoJet Wideband 2 does for you...

So, YES...!!! The control module comes with new O2 output wire...!!!! (color is green)

You only have to cut the wire off your stock O2 sensor and connected to the Wideband 2 green wire..!!! your done... that's it... easy...

And of course... and DynoJet can do this for you before shipping out your unit... Program the Wideband O2 sensor to 13.9 AFR... So, you do not need to buy the POD 300.. email Chris at DynoJet and tell him you want set-up for PCX... he will be happy to program it to 13.9 AFR for you.. before shipping..

The gauge... yes... the gauge is showing you what your actual AFR is at all times...

Now your stock ECU in 'Closed Loop' will hold your AFR at 13.9..!!!!

pretty cool stuff..!!!

Thank you, I understand the principals of AFR and performance vs economy tuning. I just wanted to know how the Dynojet product goes about it.

As I said, I have a piggyback interceptor and wideband EGO/gauge already and I don't really need to purchase anything if the tools I have work for me.
The difference with my stuff is that the DFA reads the narrowband and outputs a corrected signal. The wideband is along for the ride for tuning/monitoring.

Do you have photos of your installation setup before the bodywork was put back on your scooter?

The little Honda is heavily regulated, we've known that forever. Some in here would say good MPG and cleaner emissions is why I bought it. But I say it's just a little motorbike, lets get all we can out of her as long as the mods work, and are within reasonable cost for a scooter OR... you up your game to a bigger bike. Looking at 350 to 450usd for this unit plus a modified header... it better pull like my Buell

homie wrote:Looking at 350 to 450usd for this unit... it better pull like my Buell

This is why it's handy for me since I already have a very flexible piggyback ECU designed for fuel and EGO tuning, and the wideband EGO with gauge.
The only costs to me are getting the bung welded on the header and a clamp to bar mount my gauge, and whatever my time is to hook it all up.

I don't know if it'll pull like the Buell, but it might sound meaner?

chicaboo wrote:

homie wrote:Looking at 350 to 450usd for this unit... it better pull like my Buell

This is why it's handy for me since I already have a very flexible piggyback ECU designed for fuel and EGO tuning, and the wideband EGO with gauge.
The only costs to me are getting the bung welded on the header and a clamp to bar mount my gauge, and whatever my time is to hook it all up.

I don't know if it'll pull like the Buell, but it might sound meaner?

Impressive presentation If somebody installs one and its all that... might make ThailandPCX a whisper'er

homie wrote:

chicaboo wrote:

homie wrote:Looking at 350 to 450usd for this unit... it better pull like my Buell

This is why it's handy for me since I already have a very flexible piggyback ECU designed for fuel and EGO tuning, and the wideband EGO with gauge.
The only costs to me are getting the bung welded on the header and a clamp to bar mount my gauge, and whatever my time is to hook it all up.

I don't know if it'll pull like the Buell, but it might sound meaner?

Impressive presentation If somebody installs one and its all that... might make ThailandPCX a whisper'er

What about me? I built my ECU from scratch out of sticks and twine!

Ok
I dub thee a bonified PCX whisper... go forth and be reconized

Well.... Money has NEVER been a consideration for me.... I am retired and living in Amazing Thailand and ONLY having fun in my life... Why I have $80,000 (Thai) Baht PCX.... and over $100,000 (Thai) baht spent trying to get my PCX to run at it's best... and have thrown into the trash over $20,000 (Thai) Baht.... key word here in run at it's best.... sure - gained top speed 5 kph... but, darn my engine sounds clean and crisp...!!!!

Oh... Chicaboo... I really cannot say about the piggy-back set-up and the Jaycar Digital Fuel Adapter (DFA) kit that you run....

I can stay sure... my AFR was 14.7 AFR... and Akraphovic HHS full race system and K&N air filter... my PCX did NOT wake-up like I thought it would... top end was still help back by 14.7 AFR... not getting enough gas to release the horses... and did not have the bunch that I thought I would get...

I tried one of those adjustable fuel controllers... best I could find on the internet... paid like $12,000 baht and something $3,000 shipping... New and Improved... only to buy it... install it... adjust it... nothing with it... take it off and throw $12,000 baht right into the trash... sure... pissed off as hell...

But, after months of reading everything... researching every product...

Contacting DynoJet many times... waiting for DynoJet to make a Powercommander for the PCX... finally DynoJet told me... they have No Plans in the future to make a PCV for the PCX....

But... DynoJet told me about the Wideband 2... is the only thing you can do to the PCX...

You only want to correct the AFR... for more horsepower...

So, the Wideband 2 was exactly what I needed... and Love-It... done with the mod's for now... my bike runs at it best possible to obtain...

because money has never been an issue with me... ONLY FUN...!!! oh - and having my bike run better than the next guy...

well, maybe the Big Bore Kit - lol

Hello ThailandPCX.
Very nice clean install indeed and in heneral good concept.
A couple of minor correcrions though.
All proper Wideband controllers are capable of the same, some of them can be even set by a simple serial or USB cable.
This method is a lot better than other (TPS or CHT fooling methods and surely worknalso in closed loop mode unlike the power commander) unfortunately only works for the closed loop part of the engine operation envelope - in open loop (essentially anything above 80% throttle including high speed cruise and WOT) it is down to the factory maps. This results in no change under hard acceleration, slightly improved throttle response - and sloghtly worst fuel economy - but this lazer might not be important for all.
And last 14.7 AFR is not lean per se. It is surely not optimized for performance, but emissions. Safe lean cruise is about 15.1-15.6 to save fuel, but serious hit on performance. 14.7 is also called Lambda 1, anything richer than this results in residual fuel left in the exhaust gases with potentially all oxigen burnt, while leaner than this has residual oxigen without enough fuel to get all potential from the given motor. It is true though that a rich mixture is better for acceleration- but this method only affects part throttle, and not affecting hard accel. That part needs a different method

Yep, unfortunately my DFA won't work for incremental fuel tuning at different load points because we don't have a mass airflow sensor for it to tune against. The same goes for the Dynojet or any device that manipulates only the ego signal. So you'd have to watch the AFR gauge to see what's happening in open loop. ThailandPCX would have to honestly tell us how his scooter is performing in open loop using this method with just the intake and exhaust mods. I have a lot more going on in the background, so this may or may not be entirely useful for my ultimate goals.

Hi Oyabun... thanks for your viewpoint...

Yes... the DynoJet Wideband 2 is programmable too through USB and serial cable to using the POD 300...

Yes... 13.9 is NOT very fuel efficient... But, who cares if your bike is running at it's best and sounds great... and 13.9 it is excellent for making more power... truly noticeable as I for the first time... accelerated going up hill... instead of loosing speed - I can gain speed going up hill...

and Yes, NOT good under hard acceleration... but, truly better under nice roll back on the throttle... as gaining more power through the entire RPM climb... not bogging down.... because the engine is making more horsepower...

Summary - I am Very Happy with the performance using the Wideband 2... enjoy the know what my AFR is doing... and exhaust sounds better... tight crisp sound...

PS... I tried 2 of those fuel controllers... you know click 1 click 2 click 3 - 4 5 6 etc... all junk in my book... because these fuel controllers are NOT adjusting AFR versa TPS - not monitoring your AFR.... only dumping more fuel... so, I "Dumped" mind right into the trash can... and caulked it up to lesson learned... expensive lesson learned

Hello Chicaboo...

Hey Dude.. I read your whole series of High Performance Mod's... WOW - Dude...

So, really... I am unable to comment on how the Wideband 2 might work out on your bike...

And I am limited in my knowledge too.. I only know that to develop horsepower... and I read... AFR 13.4 for hole shots off the line because you quickly open your throttle body and mass amounts of air are dumped into your engine so for this you want a little bit rich condition - so, I read.... and sure... you can lean out 14.5 for cruising speeds... better cruising and better economy fuel... but... unless you have a truly ECU that you can 'Map' at per TPS.... and build multi maps for.... round town riding... cruising open roads.... and Drag Race... Quick Open Throttle.... etc

I am Very Happy with my performance of my Honda PCX with the Dynojet Wideband 2.... and AFR set at 13.9... gives me the best of both worlds... More Horsepower... through a more wide range of conditions and RPM's...

Summary - I am Very Happy with the performance using the Wideband 2... enjoy the know what my AFR is doing... and exhaust sounds better... tight crisp sound...

PS... I tried 2 of those fuel controllers... you know click 1 click 2 click 3 - 4 5 6 etc... all junk in my book... because these fuel controllers are NOT adjusting AFR versa TPS - not monitoring your AFR.... only dumping more fuel... so, I "Dumped" mind right into the trash can... and caulked it up to lesson learned... expensive lesson learned...

ThailandPCX - I'm talking about proper fuel controllers, like a Bazzaz, PowerCommander, or DILTS Japan, which allow proper fuel enrichment mapping along ignition timing adjustments. These are best used for the closed loop portion of the operation.

Chicaboo: the good thing is that on a scooter engine load is well represented by throttle position or RPM so no need for air flow sensor to be used.

Oyabun wrote:Chicaboo: the good thing is that on a scooter engine load is well represented by throttle position or RPM so no need for air flow sensor to be used.

Yeah, but my DFA won't do fuel tuning without a signal from a Vane/Mass Airflow Meter with 0-5V or 0-12V signal delivery.
At least it can shift the 0-1V signal from a narrowband EGO. but I have no idea what the stock ECU would do with any given mods in open loop.
Does the stock ECU just look at the TPS in open loop to control fuel delivery, and go up to 100% duty cycle on the injector from 80-100% throttle?
I think my DFA could spoof a constant 79% throttle position with progressive adjustments from the TPS. But this would take two DFAs to fool the ECU...

I was gone for 1 day and this very interesting thread came up.
I have one simple suggestion.
If you really want to smash that throttle body and feel the wind blowing your hair off your head, stroke the shit out of the original crankshaft.
Then find out a way to install a carburetor on your bike. No wideband O2 sensor shit. Don't even need to unplug the O2 sensor, when you're done toying, a new sensor is like 25$ from Honda, just replace it.
I have a guy over here with a SH150 running a 65mm piston with a stroked crank of 6mm running a PE28. We used to call him "Wheelie".
I have convinced myself a long time ago that if you're not using a standalone ECU, you'll get inconsistent control over the stock ECU. Just drop in a carburetor and let her ripppppppp

Hello Oyabum....

certainly.... I will be happy to comment on the Bazzaz and Dilts Japan.... Dilts Japan from Webike Japan - right....?

first I must apologize to Dilts Japan Engineers... because what in the 'hell' were you Japs thinking...

My Dilts Japan... had one - installed one - un-stalled on - and can say (if possible) 200% JUNK... Dilts Japan is NOT a map unit at all... does not monitor the AFR so how can you even begin to set-up Dilts... Dilts map graph is even stupid as shit... 'Y" axis is TPS and 'X' axis is RPM... Well, Dilts - where in the heck is your AFR... and Dilts does not have a set-point... Nothing to get your starter.... and there means of Fuel Control.. like I said... How - when the unit is not geared towards monitoring - adjusting your AFR... there means of adjustment is in microseconds... you can adjust how long your injector will stay open.... and if this isn't bad enough for you... their range is like 300 microseconds to like 2,000 microseconds... well - again with No means to control your AFR with the Dilts... where in the heck to you start... 500 microseconds or 800 microseconds or 1,500 mircoseconds..??? So... Dilts was my first $12,000 baht mistake... lost my ass on that one...

You also mentioned Powercommander - from DynoJet... Sorry to inform you... there is No Powercommander V on the market... and DynoJet has No Plans to put one on the market... they already tried... and could not get any better improvement... no real noticeable increase in Horsepower... So, DynoJet decide not to introduce a PowerCommander V into the market for the PCX because... why..??? would it sell..???

Sure - I can also comment on the BAZZAZ... first.. try to contact BAZZAZ... try to get any form of "Customer Service"... I tried for months to talk with somebody... and I tried all 3 ways... (1) email - No Response.... (2) left a customer support ticket through their website - No Respose... (3) left a message on their YouTube video - No Response... So BAZZAZ - Kiss my Lilly White #$*^(^@#... because to me... 100% Good Customer Support is a "Requirement"... so, BAZZAZ- No Response - No Sale - No Buy

And after talking with Dynojet... their chief engineer Chris... since the Stock ECU runs in "Closed Loop" "continuously... there is nothing you can do to change this.... because is you could change this... believe me DynoJet would have a PowerCommander V on the market...

So, I am glad again - I did not buy the BAZZAZ Unit - maybe just another worthless piece of junk for the PCX...

And Dude... the Wideband 2 is made by PowerCommander - DynoJet...!!!!

BPT7594...

Sorry... I do not to do anything that would jeopardize my reliability...

I am into cruising around Amazing Thailand... from Bangkok to Chiang Mai to Trat to Udon Thani...!!!!

In my 'hay day' I build 1,500 HP rail cars... back in the 80's... and have blown motors in my boats too cranking out 800 HP.... so, sure - I know High Performance and how to get it...

But - Sure... all my shit was reliable... but, all my shit required daily tweeting too... because everybody know me... "If I touch Something" - "I won't leave it until it is 100% Perfect"...

Now I ONLY Love to get the most out of the Stock Engine... and can ride without my heart jumping into my throat every time I hear an unusual pop to boom...