Beware of the rain

[gagazman]

Ok, so I just thought I would share this with you all.

I know a lot of you will be experienced to deal with all hazards, including weather. Maybe you could even give me some pointers.

Here in the UK, especially the Lakes in the north, we get a lot of wet weather (however an unusually long dry spell has just ended). I have commuted regularly for the past 3 months without problems, 20 miles each way, in wet and dry weather and, with being a new rider, my confidence has increased dramatically but still always wary of surroundings, whats going on etc..

Last night, coming home, it had been raining but was just becoming fine rain. I was ok until I came to one corner which i don't like, a left hand 90 degree bend, slightly sloping down. I was just going around this said corner when my brakes locked (yes, my fault, braking going round the corner). I managed to keep myself upright while wavering from side to side for what seemed like a while, but about 5 seconds. Scary stuff, but i knew what i had done wrong, learned from my mistake of braking while cornering, especially in wet weather. Needless to say I made sure I nailed that corner this evening on my return.

This morning when going to work, it had been raining heavily but had stopped. The roads were wet. Again, I kept thinking that I had learned from my mistake, and took it easy.
At one junction, a staggered crossroad with a right then left turn (I hate right turns) I pulled out after a stop while waiting, and, going over the white stripes in the middle, my bike blooming slipped and i was heading for the wall opposite. For f£$%s sake I thought. Again, I got myself upright, then carried my journey on, after a moment to gather myself.

Now I was wondering if there was something wrong with my bike, but I thought no as it is only 3 months old, surely the tyres shouldn't be worn.

I had to take a detour, and upon coming to a junction onto a main road (another right then left turn staggered junction) I stopped and made sure there was no traffic. A good job because, as I pulled out and then hit the central white lines, my bike f"£$%*g slipped again, only this time my hand was stuck on the accelerator, and the brakes. I ended up in the dyke (hedgerow) on the other side with the bike falling onto the right on top of me. Luckily, i now know my safety gear stands up to rough and tumble.

I gathered myself then wheeled my bike to the junction I was heading for, had a quick check over, then continued my journey to work, and was so pleased when I eventually arrived in one piece.

Luckily, for my return journey, the roads were dry, and nailed the corner i came off on last night. I did feel like I was back to square one confidence wise and pleased when I got home.

I will be going in the car tomorrow and over the weekend as I need to check the bike over and will get time off on Monday to do this. I have had a quick look and everything seems intact, no leaks anywhere. I have also looked at the tyres, which seem fine with no bald patches. Is there anything which I should check but not visible?

Are these incidents all my own fault? Or are they just down to the weather? I keep asking myself questions, and feel my confidence has dropped as stated earlier. I am determined to continue riding.

I won't be beaten!!

That's all. I thought i would share this with you all and hope it maybe, in a strange way, help others. And if anyone has any comments and suggestions please feel free.

[honkerman]

The stock tires on the PCX (and tbh, a lot of entry level machines), are made of a hard compound and while they are acceptable on dry roads, wet pavement is a different story altogether.

Wet pavement always brings with it a degree of danger regardless of your tires. Road paint becomes more slippery. Leaves, mud, and other debris become little agents of death. When you are riding on harder rubber, this is amplified.

Michelin City grips are a good choice to alleviate this issue, as are Pirelli's and a number of other brands. Better tires will change your experience. They will not remove the danger of wet roads, but they can help you manage it better.

[gagazman]

Yes I was thinking of changing them to city grips, I have read a lot about them on here and they seem a great choice. I thought the stock tyres were not as bad people make out until the past 24 hours.


Oh well we live and learn

[gn2]

White lines and mastic joins and metalware are always slippery in the wet.
No matter what tyre you fit these surfaces should be avoided.
Also heavy rain is usually not as bad as slight rain, especially after a long dry spell.
Also watch out for areas of shade after rainfall, when the road is drying out the shaded areas remain wet for longer.
Also watch out for run-offs where water regularly flows across the road surface, this can polish the surface making it slippery.
And watch out for rain water washing gravel and mud and cow shit into the road and watch out for crushed leaves, those things are lethal.
And don't ride through puddles, there could be a big pothole under the surface of the water which you can't see...

[gagazman]

Good points, but white lines can't be avoided when turning right unfortunately. I suppose just a case of taking my time, turning once over them.

[fish]

Yep, it's not the road surface, nor the tires or the stripes.
You are riding too fast and/or too roughly for the conditions.
Slow down and add smoothness to your wet riding.
You can no longer act surprised when you cause a loss of control in the wet. ...spot the things ahead that will upset your scooter and match your speed and smoothness to the situation.
Scooter riding requires attentiveness.....riding a scooter in the wet requires that you be
very very attentive --- and smooth. Add darkness and you'll need more of everything but speed.
Slow down.
Look at the road.
I ride in the wet many times....and usually in the dark.
Be smooth.
Fish

[iceman]

Nothing wrong with the stock tyres - wish people would stop blaming them for poor riding skills. The basics of riding 2 wheels (not taught on any CBT course I've taken but advise from YT videos') is:
ease off the throttle on any turn and accelerate out of a turn (expect to slow down by a large margin on tight corners - don't try the scrape your knee technique and getting close to the road when relying on a scooters tiny width wheels and poor brakes!)
look ahead and slow down and take your time on tight bends - a little bit of rear brake (lhs brake on pcx) with perhaps a little bit of front a short time after
don't use the front brake too often or too hard for cornering - asking for trouble which is why you see some people fall off as their front locks and the bike topples

I'm amazed at how worried I was (reading all the IRC scare stories on this forum) when starting out on my first bike, the PCX, 2.5 years ago fitted with IRC tyres - esp. as I ride all year round in heavy, horrible London traffic with pot holed roads, roads with crap and pebbles all over them as many never get cleaned, with dips, ridges, ramps, and when it rains, oil and flooded sections and junctions - never a problem as I ride well and use the right amount of engine braking and rear/front braking. People have reported they fell off at 10mph in dry conditions and blame the stock tyres - really!

There was a poll done some time ago on this forum - not many entries but the IRC's were barely in front in peoples reports of accidents - other makes had almost as many reports. Someone posted a report from a biker mag that put the IRC's ahead of other makes!

[ScooteringAbout]

Sorry but I agree the stock tyres are lethal in the wet weather especially with some miles already on them.

Citygrips all the way.

8,500 miles on this PCX, had 7,500 on the Vision and every rider I've spoken too has changed from the stock tyres and can only speak highly about the change to Citygrips or the Diablos.

[alx123]

Quality of tires is a factor, but not entirely to be blamed. I still have my stock IRC tires on my PCX. I find them quite okay in the rain, as long as you don't ride as fast when it's dry.

I usually ease down on my throttle around 60% and double my distance between other vehicles and hazards.

In curves, i find it suitable to apply my brakes before entering the corner, but increase traction by giving a little gas while you're in the corner and leaving it.

On white paints on the road, never apply brakes or gas when it's wet. Just let the tires roll.

Don't worry, experience will increase as you increase your miles. Almost all of us been in a skid or two when we are first riding too.

[gagazman]

Thanks for the replies. I agree the tyres arent 100% to blame. I suppose experience counts for the majority.
It just shakes you up and makes you realise where your weaknesses lie.

[alx123]

Also, don't forget to have the correct pressure on your tires..Too much and you'll lose traction.

[iceman]

The only time I feel strangeness with the IRC's, is when my rear tyre loses 7 or so psi (which is does after many months). I feel strangeness on turns at that time. When I add air, never a problem.

[Mel46]

I have to agree that experience is the best solution for this problem, but until that time you should do everything else that you can to help you, such a swapping out the tires if it will help.
I have ridden on all sorts of tires in all sorts of conditions, but my wife has not. She continually had problems that I could associate directly with the tires, so I swapped her tires to City Grips and these solved a lot of her problems. Now if she had been riding as long as I have we probably would not have resorted to swapping tires, though the City Grips are outstanding tires. (In fact, once my rear tire wore down I replaced it with a City Grip, simply because they seem to grip much better than the original tires.)
Nothing replaces experience, but there are things that you can do to help in the meantime. Swap the tires, and then practice on the roads you have the most problems with until you know where to brake and where not to, and how to deal with rain on those particular roads.

[gagazman]

Thanks for all the comments. In a strange way they make me feel better. Perhaps one or two of you will know how I feel after these incidents.

So, it appears that experience is the main 'culprit' followed by tyres. I am going to work on the experience side, build my confidence back up but for the time being I can't face them bends on the bike. Maybe a couple of weeks before I go back to them. As for the tyres, I have decided to swap them out, but just got to wait to gather the funds. Does anyone know how much the dealership will charge in the UK, fitting included, for the city grips?

Also, after these incidents, what happens to the bike? I mean, visually it looks ok, believe it or not no scratches, tyres ok, runs ok etc. but should I get it professionally looked at? Should I expect any damage internally? After all, it did go on its side, even though it was resting on my leg !!

[gn2]

Do not go to a Honda dealer for tyres unless you have money to burn.
Order the tyres online and take the tyres with the loose wheels to an independent tyre fitter, shouldn't cost more than a tenner per wheel to fit and balance and dispose of the old tyres.
A pair of Citygrips can be had for under £80, if you get the wheels off yourself you're talking under a hundred pounds total.
Also worth considering the Michelin Pilot Street, a pair of those are £72

http://www.tyretectrading.co.uk/

[honkerman]

Thanks for all the comments. In a strange way they make me feel better. Perhaps one or two of you will know how I feel after these incidents.

So, it appears that experience is the main 'culprit' followed by tyres. I am going to work on the experience side, build my confidence back up but for the time being I can't face them bends on the bike. Maybe a couple of weeks before I go back to them. As for the tyres, I have decided to swap them out, but just got to wait to gather the funds. Does anyone know how much the dealership will charge in the UK, fitting included, for the city grips?

Also, after these incidents, what happens to the bike? I mean, visually it looks ok, believe it or not no scratches, tyres ok, runs ok etc. but should I get it professionally looked at? Should I expect any damage internally? After all, it did go on its side, even though it was resting on my leg !!

If there was no impact, there is unlikely to be damage to the scooter itself. Severe chassis damage is often easy to tell due to changes in handling, though minor damage may not be so noticeable. A slide isn't likely to cause more than external cosmetic damage though crazier things have happened.

If you wish to have it checked by a mechanic for peace of mind, that's certainly not a bad idea. When I crashed mine last year, the only damage the bike sustained was some scuffing of the plastics.

[flyingzonker]

wet weather plus street paint makes for a bad combo. I avoid wet paint like my life depended on it.

[flyingzonker]

wet weather plus street paint makes for a bad combo. I avoid wet paint like my life depended on it.