Making the rear brake pads last???

[aguim]

Crazy stuff happens to this scooter pads, mostly the rear ones. Mine was checked and serviced time and again. Yet, the rear pads never lasted more than 10 000km. Even with my rather slowpokish
riding style. I've even tried different brands, to no avail. Hell, I've even removed the rear piston's
dust seal, again to no avail.

Then comes Dave J. saying his own Forza miraculously went from eating pads like popcorn ...to them suddenly lasting forever !

I was beginning to think maybe there's something not 100% right with Honda's ABS system, here.
But I'll never know. Sold the scoot at 42Kkm, perfectly satisfied except for the f...ing brakes, that is.


EDIT : I've also used the synthetic stuff, from day one !

[Forza 300]

Update ,Ok I just measured my rear pads and there just below the wear indicator on the pad so 1.56 mm . I guess I did ok for original rear pads at 27550 k
Don

[davenowherejones]

My front brake pads now have a ridiculous 74,638 km on them. And I do use my front brakes all the time and they work rather well.

The rear pads have 16,483 km and the previous set had 14,007 km when I replaced them.

I checked my pads a while ago and have no need to change them for a while.

The Forza 300 geometry is a little different than most motorcycles I have owned. My dual sports bikes all wore out the front pads quicker than the rear. My Yamaha BWS 49cc was also harder on the front pads but they were about the size of a dollar coin, very small. I think the BWS rear was a drum???

Having the motor on the swingarm and having a strange frame with extra-parts makes the Forza unique. My Forza was a re-built wreck when I got it (minor body panel scratches from a parking lot tip over and the government insurance wrote off the almost new scooter.) Our government owned insurance company has been under investigation for fraud before and also for total mis-management. There was no oil in the forks which made it handle terrible. I think it came from the factory with no oil but I have no proof. It improved drastically when thicker oil was added.

I tested the ABS in a parking lot the other day and it still works like it should.

I now have my Heidenau K66 mud and snow rear scooter tire. I will wait a few more thousand kilometers for my Michelin CityGrip to wear out.

I bought a years worth of crappy ICBC insurance with $200,000 liability coverage and nothing else. $394 Canadian for a two square inch sticker. The old sticker and the new sticker are almost the same colour due to government stupidity.

I decided to have a coffee after wasting my money. The Blue Moose Coffee House is always interesting in Hope, BC. Unfortunately I always associate Blue with a Gay Bar not that there is anything wrong with that.

I decided I wanted potatoes chips on the way back to my truck parked on the next street over. I turned the corner to see one of our local crazy ladies hanging on to the back of a pickup truck with her head covered in blood. I called the police. She has been a nuisance to me before. I am sure the RCMP know her well. A very sad situation.

It was finally above freezing again. Too much snow and ice to go riding but SOON!!!

[AustinPCX]

33,000 miles and still on the original front and rear pads. Not much city riding though.




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[Austins]

Well, I have read all about this rear brake pad issue and changed it the first time at 13k km, almost worn out complete at that time....

However, kind of forgot about it and as it's not possible to see those damn pads easily unless openned, I didn't bother, thinking I would go for a full service (24k) soon and change it....

A few days ago my friend who usually ride behind me close up, like wingman... lol, said there is a strange noise coming from the rear wheel, put it up on the stand and sure enough could here metal on metal noise and scratch on the inner side of disc brake...! The fact that without braking and moving the wheel by hand made the noise means the pad is not going back and stuck, no ...!?

This is after 10k km after putting new last time at 13k km. Mechanic opened, inner, cylinder side, pad completely gone to metal, other side had about 1mm, he cleaned it really well and changed pads, showed me the piston moves okay, but when I asked to put some grease in that badly designed pad guides/clips, he looked at me in horror and said no way....!?!?!? He said bad idea...!

No idea why Honda didn't use the standard pins design like the front, the idiot who suggested this design should be shot...

I probably buy new pad clips/guides for next time, try to use the back brake less and just change/inspect more often, and live. with it...

But if this thing sticks and grabs the disc it will have performance consequences and makes the disc hot, maybe that's why I have such hot underseat compartment too, and mine gets really hot around there in traffic, need to check the disc temperature and movement more..., but the wheel not move freely due to transmission and CVT any way ...? Need to just ride with no back brake and check if disc is hot, I guess only way...

By theway, he also changed front pads, evenly worn and had about 1.5mm or so, as expected , first change at 23k km, I think that's okay and fair enough....

[davenowherejones]

Take the rear caliper apart and grease the sliding pin. Same with the front.

I did and got 100,000 km out of the front pads. The rears don't last as long. This the opposite of normal motorcycles.

Most motorcycles wear out the front first.

The Forza has the engine on the rear swingarm basically. Totally different weight distribution.

The Forza 300 first gen (2014-?) rear brake is a bad design. Too hard to see the pads. Taking the muffler off requires an expensive gasket. If you are careful you can re-use it a few times. Mine sounds like a dirt bike right now.

[Austins]

Just thinking about this, to test if the rear pads stuck, no need to go for a ride, just put on stand from cold, rev a bit for 2 or 3 minutes, then stop and see if disc is hot, would that work...!?

But maybe the disc normally has a slight contact with pads anyway، and that's normal, and that gets the disc a bit warm...! Not sure what the best test would be....!?

[mymitzi]

That's no fun......Take it for a ride....... just use your front brake on the way home. : )
BTW............Still on the original rear & front pads @ 23k +

[springer1]

I was watching a NASCAR race on TV and and announcer said how silly it was when a Crew Chief radio'd his driver to tell him to "start conserving fuel". The announcer commented how a driver couldn't really do that without getting passed by everyone.

Jeff Gordon was a new commentator on the show and said "of course you can, you save fuel by reducing your need to use your brakes. Go as fast as you want down the straights but just let off the gas a bit earlier going into the turns". (Saves brakes too.)

[davenowherejones]

The factory muffler puts a lot of heat into the brake disk and the rear tire.

I have a FOBO tire monitoring system on my tire valves. It also monitors the temperature.

On my last ride the front was 8 degrees C or just above air temperature.

The rear sensor was reporting 23 degrees C. Some of this was the muffler directly heating the sensor. But the tire was also substantially above ambient temperature.

It would be very interesting to put a non-factory muffler on the Forza. Or to insulate the current muffler with fiberglas and tin foil.

Warm tires are good for racing but racing tires get replaced every race.

It is too cold to ride right now, 3 degrees C. Next week is supposed to be warmer but wet. I might get out for lunch.

[Austins]

It's 30c here every day, and every day almost a perfect day for a ride, you should come and live here in Thailand, whatever pension you get you back there can have a better standard of life here than in Canada or US or Europe...

Back to rear disc brake, the weather is so hot and exhaust so close if you go out riding even without using the back brake it will be hard to establish if pads are stuck, I will search the internet for more info....

[Austins]

Ok, after 200km I think the pads have bedded in, so from cold I ran the engine on center stand for like under one minute at about 50kph, rear disk was hot but I could touch it, hold and press hard with my fingers, then would get a bit uncomfortable...
Then rode it around, again from cold , for like 5 min, never used back brakes, stopped and could not touch the rear disk as it was burning hot...!?

So is that normal..., perhaps some of you guys can test the same and we can compare notes... !

[davenowherejones]

Mine are cold

[Austins]

Mine are cold

That's good to know, I think mine shouldn't get this hot, it's not right...

I also touched the front wheel disk after 5 min riding, and after even using the front brake a few times it was not even warm. So the back brake pads are sticking as they say....!

Need to find a solution, I take it to another mechanic to put some grease on clips/guides and see if that makes any difference....

Any other suggestions...!? (it was cleaned well, and piston moves okay)

[davenowherejones]

You do not need any grease on the clips.

It is needed on the pins that connect the inside and outside of the caliper. One end of the pins have a rubber bellows to hold the grease in. I think Honda never put any grease in there at the factory. 5 cents worth of grease. Damn it, Honda!

The big arrows point to where you need to add some brake grease.

[davenowherejones]

Same on the front also.

[Austins]

Thanks for the info, I thought you greased those clips/guides at bottom right of your image, that's where the pads sit - and I guess move (!?), I thought that is where it gets stuck, perhaps also due to deformation and/or dirt there ... !?

By the way, I checked to buy new ones of those two clips, but Honda does not sell them separately, it's part of that back side of caliper body....!!!!! Very odd . Part number 43110-KVZ-631, and it's $85 from some sites...., pricey.

The mechanic did open and grease those pins, one of the rubber boots weren't fitting well, I asked him to push it in and make sure it sits well. So that should be okay really...

Maybe it's my piston or brake line...!? I'm well pissed off, need to fix this, pads are cheap here to replace but I don't like it creating heat and degrading performance..., I chat with Honda mechanic too yesterday, he just dismissed it as , yeah, no problem , it's same on all Forza, just need to replace pads often... !!! I can't believe these people , just don't understand it's not okay to have brake pads sticking like that...!

So no grease in those clips/guides...!? So the mechanic was right when I asked him to do that and he said not a good idea...

[davenowherejones]

Did they put proper hi-temperature brake grease in there or just cheap axle grease?

I got 100,000 km on the front pads and they could have lasted even longer.

The rears do not last very long, about 15,000 km.

[Austins]

No idea really, this is Thailand so they just grab whatever grease is close at hand...!
I think I'm going back there for more investigation of brake caliper and also show him the mess he made on my side panel paint, see what they can do...

[Austins]

Long story but I went to do my 24k service (bought all parts online) but the usual mechanic snubbed me and a bit rude, his assistant came over and said we are busy, no time... ! I think he didn't like it when I went back a couple of weeks ago, showed him the stains (another thread about that) and mentioned rear pads maybe sticking - he angrily put it on the center stand then , turned it with his hand and said , no problem...!

Thais are quite sensitive and touchy...!, anyway, on to another shop - too many to count here, no shortage...

So this new guy changed all the parts, also renewed brake fluid, as I thought it might help, even opened the rear caliper again, cleaned and greased again, I checked myself, pushed piston out, very good condition, straighten those clips a bit etc. - he also said no grease on clips, only on pins that has those rubber cover/boots...

Anyway, after a bit of use, no difference, rear disk even without using rear brake lever at all gets very hot after 5 min of riding. I give up, I start to think maybe the heat is from the exhaust and not the pads anyway...!!!

I changed the belt, he cleaned the CVT a bit and I checked all the parts, amazingly everything was perfect, 6 rollers , 3 sliders, all 4 variator plates front and back, my aftermarket clutch bell and carbon shoes in very good condition, not sure about all the springs, hard to check those, but for now leave all as is....