PGM-FI Controller for first generation PCX150 (KF12)

[BPT7594]

It sounds OK on the road, nothing wrong with it on acceleration. But when deceleration and in enclosed areas like a very small road, it kinda howls a little. He's breaking it in and hopefully everything will be ok

[Pcxdemon]

Could it be that howling is his belt?

[BPT7594]

Well the belt is fine. He did replace the entire bearing set of the gear case. He decided to remove it. What a shame. Aside from the sound the engine is very smooth with the gear installed. Only 20km on the gear.

[Pcxdemon]

Is the vario offset putting lateral pressure on the belt causing it to whine a bit? tell him to try stock vario just to see...

On the another note,im 3 steps closer to finishing mine.. Got to wire up the 150 temp sensor to a v1 wiring, change oil,fill coolant and start it up!!

[BPT7594]

He's scared to death now haha. I have to bear a part of the damage since I was the guy introducing him to do it. I'm pretty sure it came from the gear case not the transmission box so bummer there.
Good luck with your new engine. I'm still waiting anxiously for my parts to arrive from Yuminashi and my parts guy who ships the injector and the double valve springs set from Thailand. I may do a 150 head conversion later and try to convince Reggy to custom made a piston head that fully accepts the new 29 23 valves.

[BPT7594]

Update for Oyabun.
We do have guys here who run a PC server fan on his PCX to questionable results. They claimed to free up a lot of mechanical work and their fuel consumption has improved about 5km per litre but that must be tested. I don't trust anybody making any claims until I have experienced it myself. I'll see if they have any more of that fan left to try. Will report.

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[Pcxdemon]

I really like this idea!! I have been thinking this for a long time and also electric coolant pump. I reckon the gains would be awesome!

[Pcxdemon]

Although I'd be fitting that fan on the inside to draw air thru the radiator..only thing then is you couldn't see it working or when it fails...
I'd wire that up to the ignition contact and install a 5-20 second delay switch to reduce battery load on starting up.

[BPT7594]

The guys running it has agreed to make one for me about 10$. I'll post the results here once I got it running.
About the electric coolant pump, I've been unable to find anybody who agrees to try to mod it to fit my scoot. They'd do it for a Yamaha Ex150, not my scoot. So still have to look there.
But will full electric coolant pump system plus electric fan and the Yuminashi 1.6 bar cap be a little bit overkill Vlad, just a little bit ?
My take is if you go that way, better buy a huge capacity battery and be ready to charge it more often. I'll see if there's any crazy mods around here and let you guys know

[Pcxdemon]

I would get a temp meter to read your engine temps. Koso makes one and sells on webike.
Just to be safe..you know!
Engine operating temp is between 87-90 degrees Celsius..

[BPT7594]

Well I've asked them about the fan. They said it only helps with the cooling by pushing air into the radiator along with the fan inside the radiator that sucks air in. I've mentioned about dust or projectiles during normal commute or in the rain, they said to mod a switch off button to turn the fan off if there's chance of damaging the electric fan but then the fan would just sit in the way of the air being sucked in.
I'll be sure to get it, but only after the 1.6 bar cap. My package status is still "Departure from outward OE" and has been like that for more than one day. What does that generally mean?

[nedla]

hello guys starting to learn many ideas from you all, however what is the meaning of closed loop and open loop?

Noted will start looking for VHT or Permatex copper spray, do we spray it on both sides of the gasket?

where can we find the torque values in tightening our honda engines? My unit is Click 125i PGMFI esp 2015 Led headlight type, plan to install the 164 Ultimate kit, Reggy said this kit is very ok with just my stock ECU, i actually don't like to mess with another piggy back or any electronic adjustments and it might get wet during washing or affected by dust and vibration, what do u guys think? Will my setup run smoothly and with correct AFR in all rpm ranges?
this is the kit he recommended: http://www.yuminashi.eu/164cc-essential ... click125i/

thank you

[BPT7594]

hello guys starting to learn many ideas from you all, however what is the meaning of closed loop and open loop?

Noted will start looking for VHT or Permatex copper spray, do we spray it on both sides of the gasket?

where can we find the torque values in tightening our honda engines? My unit is Click 125i PGMFI esp 2015 Led headlight type, plan to install the 164 Ultimate kit, Reggy said this kit is very ok with just my stock ECU, i actually don't like to mess with another piggy back or any electronic adjustments and it might get wet during washing or affected by dust and vibration, what do u guys think? Will my setup run smoothly and with correct AFR in all rpm ranges?
this is the kit he recommended: http://www.yuminashi.eu/164cc-essential ... click125i/

thank you

you can run the full kit without the controller just fine. If you can install that controller, it would be optimal, but it's not a must. About the copper spray, I really don't know. My mechanic uses some special glue. I'll ask Reggy about it. And check your e-mail
Closed loop as I understand is a term to describe how the ECU works. It uses sensors to determine the amount of fuel being delivered, but it regulates it by feedback from the O2 sensor, that's closed loop, the O2 sensor acts as a final regulator. Open loop I think is when you WOT (wide open throttle), the ECU ignores the O2 sensor and spray fuel all over the place to ensure that fuel enter the combustion chamber

[nedla]

thank u Binh
what will be the difference in HP and performance if i have the controller, pros and cons?

[nedla]

does O2 sensor mean oxygen sensor?

[BPT7594]

Yes it means the oxygen sensor. It reads the results of the combustion process. If there's oxygen, then it's lean, no oxygen, then it's rich and adjust back to 14.7 which is the ideal AFR.
I don't think the difference in HP and performance would be very noticeable because without the controller, Reggy said the AFR is 14.7 just like stock, so if you do have a controller, you can be safer by adding more fuel. A rich fuel mixture, to an extent, results in a cooler operating engine (12:1 for example). Running a little bit rich can cost fuel consumption, but tuners always try to keep a performance engine running a little rich, that's the common way, I have not heard of anybody who cares about performance actually tries to run an AFR more than 14.7.
You'd be fine without the controller kit, it would be optimal, not a must.

[Oyabun]

Yes it means the oxygen sensor. It reads the results of the combustion process. If there's oxygen, then it's lean, no oxygen, then it's rich and adjust back to 14.7 which is the ideal AFR.
I don't think the difference in HP and performance would be very noticeable because without the controller, Reggy said the AFR is 14.7 just like stock, so if you do have a controller, you can be safer by adding more fuel. A rich fuel mixture, to an extent, results in a cooler operating engine (12:1 for example). Running a little bit rich can cost fuel consumption, but tuners always try to keep a performance engine running a little rich, that's the common way, I have not heard of anybody who cares about performance actually tries to run an AFR more than 14.7.
You'd be fine without the controller kit, it would be optimal, not a must.

Almost perfect BPT. A few corrections though.
14.7:1 AFR is not the ideal, but it gives the compound lowest exhaust gases (actually it is a result of a derivative of a three variable equation for the three worst exhaust gases) without sacrificing too much fuel efficiency or performance. For example around 15.2 would be the still safe best fuel economy, while ~12.6 would give best performance (with the right ignition timing ) and knock resistance. So ideal can be significantly different based on one's design criteria.
Richer air fuel mixes are not necessary cooler to run, but significantly decrease knock or detonation tendency in a petrol engine - which means it can operate hotter, with higher compression ratio which means higher efficiency - thus more power.
Closed loop definition was also great. It means a full control cycle where the exhaust oxygen sensor provides feedback to the ecu. It essentially enables an engine to adapt to changes ( these can be altitude, temperature, humidity, a new exhaust etc) by measuring oxigen content of exhaust gases and trimming fuel injection duration.
However in open loop engine controls don't spray fuel all around, but spray fuel to the same place as in closed loop, but not able have a full control circuit, so inject fuel based on a preprogrammed base program ( as it contains more than parameters usually throttle position and rpm it is usually called a map).
The Yuminashi essentials kit you have linked already has the new copper head gasket, so I guess you won't need the copper spray to install that.

[BPT7594]

Spot on.
By ideal here I mean for the manufacturers.
And for the open loop, yeah I was a little shaky there. Would you please elaborate a little about the sensors? i.e the MAP, IAT, IACV, etc.
As I understand, nedla's Click 125i and my Air Blade 125i does not have 2 sensors, IACV and MAP sensors, which according to Reggy is why the Click is very hard to tune. As I understand correctly, the MAP is the key here. It can sense the amount based on the pressure of the total air entering the combustion chamber, which would be great for any mods because it would mean the engine can adjust itself according to any mod, with of course a bigger injector if the stock one is exhausted. Such a system is why Reggy said they'll release the big crankshaft for the PCX (64.9mm stroke, that's a 7mm increase over the stock one) and a new cylinder to accomodate that long stroke, and the SH but not the Click, shame on that.
However, as I understand the Yuminashi 31mm throttle body has all the sensors needed, so I'm planning to install the entire wire harness of the PCX 125 esp and its ECU on my scooter, basically turning into a PCX fuel injection system with complete sensors.
What do you think about its viability? would it be just looking at the wire harness map and connecting plugs? I have got my hands on the wire harness now, sub and main, but not the ECU.

[Pcxdemon]

Thermostat wired up!
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... o5o86v.jpg


http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... czjols.jpg

[nedla]

thank you Oyabun and BPT, noted no need to spray anything on the copper gasket..

What can i find torque values in tightening my Click 125i?

So for instance i already have this set up(http://www.yuminashi.eu/164cc-essential ... click125i/), what is your guess of the value in idle, 2,000, 5,000, 8,000 range? Because as of what i've learned here in my stock set up, its always at 14.7 right?