Faster acceleration at lower speeds

[Brent]

New owner with 550 miles on a 2015 PCX 150. I really don't care about top speed (as I never get on the freeway) , but I would like more power and faster acceleration at lower speeds. Is there anything to modify to get more power at lower speeds?

[buddy1976]

Hi and congrats on your new PCX!

An aftermarket variator is your best bet. Lots of threads on this in the performance section.

[Valiant]

New owner with 550 miles on a 2015 PCX 150. I really don't care about top speed (as I never get on the freeway) , but I would like more power and faster acceleration at lower speeds. Is there anything to modify to get more power at lower speeds?

Allow me to explain a little something about power:
Anything short of messing with the camshaft, fuel mix, or the engine itself(typically a bored cylinder) will NOT affect power.

If you feel like you're lacking power, it's because the roller weights are too heavy in your stock variator, which results in the weights "locking out" too early. So using a bicycle analogy, it would be like jumping to the last gear before building up enough speed. Properly shifting through the gears allows you to "accelerate" faster even though your physical leg strength remains the same.

Thus the suggestion of switching out the variator(typically affects top speed) and the usual trend of using lighter weights. Stock is 18g on the 2015 model, suggestions are typically 12-13g(I use 13) weights. With lighter weights, the pulley has to build up more speed before the weights "lock out", which generally means you stay in lower gear longer, thus the better acceleration and "power".

This set is a good combination:
http://www.corsportusa.com/2010-honda-p ... on-pulley/
http://www.corsportusa.com/2010-honda-p ... rive-face/
http://www.corsportusa.com/2010-honda-p ... ights-13g/

Though you may want to have them check their stock first, as last I checked, the drive face was out of stock pretty much everywhere.

If you want, you can also take a look at this:
http://www.corsportusa.com/2010-honda-p ... ry-slider/
It's the rear pulley assembly, and IMO "smooths out" the acceleration so it feels more linear. Prior to installing that, I felt my PCX was really jerky with a bit of a pause between twisting the throttle and suddenly yanking me forward. It isn't cheap at $135, so it's up to you whether that's worth it or not.

[sendler2112]

The most cost effective solution to improve acceleration is to change to 12 gram DrPulley sliders.
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=600
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3189
.
The aftermarket variator doesn't help acceleration. It is changed to get longer gearing for more top speed.

[Valiant]

The most cost effective solution to improve acceleration is to change to 12 gram DrPulley sliders.
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=600
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3189
.
The aftermarket variator doesn't help acceleration. It is changed to get longer gearing for more top speed.

Isn't part of the equation also that the longer gearing on the variator means the belt "locks out" at a higher top speed as well? Say, at 55 mph versus say, maybe 45 mph on stock.

[sendler2112]

Isn't part of the equation also that the longer gearing on the variator means the belt "locks out" at a higher top speed as well? Say, at 55 mph versus say, maybe 45 mph on stock.

Longer gearing doesn't help you accelerate better until you get to a speed where the shorter gearing is well past power peak and starting to wind out. 9,000 rpm?
.
If you went with a real aggressive, low roller weight in the NCY vario of 8,500 rpm, then that would be true.

[buddy1976]

The most cost effective solution to improve acceleration is to change to 12 gram DrPulley sliders.
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=600
.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3189
.
The aftermarket variator doesn't help acceleration. It is changed to get longer gearing for more top speed.

Since i upgraded to the malossi multivar my acceleration has improved vastly! the multivar pack comes with its own 10.5gr rollers and and a white contra spring(not essential you install the spring but does increase revs and hill climbing speed is improved)

[sendler2112]

The lighter weights are the key to better acceleration. Not the expensive vario. This increases the pulling rpm to be closer to the power peak of 8,200.

[buddy1976]

The lighter weights are the key to better acceleration. Not the expensive vario. This increases the pulling rpm to be closer to the power peak of 8,200.

The 1st upgrade i did was 11gr dr pulleys in stock variator which did improve acceleration but nowhere near as quick as installing the variator kit.
I think the multivar kit is worth the extra overlay, you get new a new boss contra spring and weights. i picked mine up for around £100 and it was worth every penny, not just on this scoot on my previous honda dylan 125 aswell. i really do think an after market variator kit like the nyc or malossi is a must if you want to improve acceleration without engine mods

[sendler2112]

i really do think an after market variator kit like the nyc or malossi is a must if you want to improve acceleration without engine mods

How does the multivar improve acceleration more than just setting the stock vario to the same rpm and increasing it's jump off the line with sliders that take the gearing so low on take off that shuddering sometimes begins to show?

[MikeP]

Interesting topic. I just installed a few of Malossi products last weekend. The variator, kevlar belt and the maxi delta clutch set. I notice significant difference in how smooth the take off is. It is supper smooth. Take off rpm is about 3800 and there is the power for a very aggressive take off if one wants to use it. It would be easy to dump a passenger if they were not paying attention. The weights I used are 12.5gram Malossi. I noticed that my top end RPM has dropped from:
8800-9200rpm at 100kmh to 7800-8000rpm at 100kmh
Previous top speed was 107kmh, how it is 118kmh. The speeds stated are GPS recorded. Speedo not accurate.

Generally the system, because all the drive parts were replaced, is very well tuned for a city driving as there is lots of power at typical city speeds to "goose it" to avoid a problem, get past a problem and the like. Very responsive and the fact it is still pulling at higher speeds due to lower RPM leads it to be better able to maintain highway speeds. One more thing, less vibration from the drive system at high speeds over stock. Probably due to lower RPM and better balancing of the Malossi product.

Still have more testing to do, but I think my in town mileage will drop and my out of town highway speeds will improve. Whereas in the past in town was excellent and the highway mileage lacked.

Happy Scooting.....

http://scooterpartsco.com/honda-scooter ... co-110-200
http://scooterpartsco.com/honda-scooter ... 0-m6114895
http://scooterpartsco.com/honda-scooter ... 0-m5115552

[sendler2112]

The weights I used are 12.5gram Malossi.

What is the full throttle pulling rpm in the 30-90 kph range with that set up?

[MikeP]

Going to Victoria today, will report back.

[sendler2112]

You didn't get a larger drive face to go with the Daytona Variator? Is it larger in O.D than the stock vario? You might want to eyeball the belt to make sure the outer edge isn't riding out of the top of the front face.

[MikeP]

Ok, back from my trip. So here are the results:

Clutch engages at 3600-3800 rpm
30km/h = 5100rpm
50km/h = 6000rpm
70km/h = 6400rpm
80km/h = 7200rpm
90km/h = 7700rpm
100km/h = 8200rpm
105km/h = 8400rpm

These are recorded by GPS and Koso tach under normal driving style. No racing or goosing of the throttle.

sendler2112, the variator is of the same O.D. and no additional drive face. The variator is dished more aggressively than the stock one.

My scientific cockpit below.

[sendler2112]

No racing or goosing of the throttle.

A full throttle run is what I was after so we could see what the weights and vario are doing. For the fastest low speed acceleration as the O.P. asked for, you would ideally want the rpm to go quickly up to 8,300 after launch and stay there for the whole run until the speed has the belt all the way out at about 95 kph, at which point the rpm will then rise with speed up to the top speed.
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But it is also good to know the rpm versus speed when steady cruising so you can choose a compromise between acceleration and fuel economy where you would want to have light throttle cruising around town stay below 6,000 rpm or lower.

[MikeP]

Ok, I get it now. I will do a run as soon as I can and record the data. Thanks for clarifying.

[Valiant]

Hmm, any issues regarding rain with the Koso tach placement? I haven't found any drain hole near the displays, but given that it's not carrying a puddle of water after it rains, I would assume there is one. I'm just not sure if drilling a hole to stick the wire through exposes any of the internal wiring to water.

[sendler2112]

I didn't drill any holes.

[Valiant]

Hmm, you strung the wire through the handlebar post?