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Does anyone know what "braking horsepower" is? New laws going into effect in Indiana are breaking scooters up into classes, and one class is a "motor driven cycle with no more than 5 braking horsepower", but no definition or way to determine braking horsepower is given. My PCX is registered and plated as a motorcycle, but I have no idea what the horsepower or braking horsepower is and if these new laws will affect me. If anyone can explain this I would appreciate it!

Brake HP is measured at the crank I believe as opposed to derived or some other measurement. The PCX 150 is about 13.5 HP. Motor-driven is like a moped in my state. I don't think you need a motorcycle license.

In Georgia if the scooter is under 50cc's you don't need a license. I think there is also a bhp limit on it. Our pcx scooters are considered motorcycles and we are required to be licensed with a motorcycle endorsement on it. I don't think the under 50cc scooters should be allowed on public roads. There have already been some deaths because of no formal licensing requirements on them. Imagine one pulling out in front of a car while on an incline. The little bike would just about stall trying to get up the hill, while the car would be downshifting and accelerating. Who would lose? That has happened a few times. Kids should not be allowed to get in traffic with them, but someone thought they were a good idea.

Brake HP is the actual HP of the engine at the crank. It is called "brake" because the instrument originally used to test it was called a brake. The engine would run and the brake increased until the engine stalled. They then could tell at what resistance the engine stoped and that gave the HP. They use a dynamometer these days, which is better for the engine.

The actual HP that gets to the wheel will be lower due to accessories added to the engine and loss through the transmission. Manufacturers usually list the brake HP because it is the higher number and looks good on spec sheets. Also it is required for many taxes and regulations in various areas.

In your case what they are going after is the 50cc or so scoot. Most 50cc are 3-4.5 HP but can be made to have over 5HP.

Indyglow wrote:Does anyone know what "braking horsepower" is? New laws going into effect in Indiana are breaking scooters up into classes, and one class is a "motor driven cycle with no more than 5 braking horsepower", but no definition or way to determine braking horsepower is given. My PCX is registered and plated as a motorcycle, but I have no idea what the horsepower or braking horsepower is and if these new laws will affect me. If anyone can explain this I would appreciate it!

It doesn't matter. If what you are saying is true it's what the governing body decides what is a braking horsepower. Government is definable, horsepower isn't

However you ARE the governed..

Here's everything that you might want to know about horsepower.....maybe more than you want to know.
Johnny
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Horsepower= ( RPM x torque) divided by 5252

Chances are you've heard about horsepower. Just about every car ad on TV mentions it, people talking about their cars bandy the word about and even most lawn mowers have a big sticker on them to tell you the horsepower rating.

The term horsepower was invented by the engineer James Watt. Watt lived from 1736 to 1819 and is most famous for his work on improving the performance of steam engines. We are also reminded of him every day when we talk about 60-watt light bulbs.

The story goes that Watt was working with ponies lifting coal at a coal mine, and he wanted a way to talk about the power available from one of these animals. He found that, on average, a mine pony could do 22,000 foot-pounds of work in a minute. He then increased that number by 50 percent and pegged the measurement of horsepower at 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute. It is that arbitrary unit of measure that has made its way down through the centuries and now appears on your car, your lawn mower, your chain saw and even in some cases your vacuum cleaner.

What horsepower means is this: In Watt's judgement, one horse can do 33,000 foot-pounds of work every minute. So, imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine as shown above. A horse exerting 1 horsepower can raise 330 pounds of coal 100 feet in a minute, or 33 pounds of coal 1,000 feet in one minute, or 1,000 pounds 33 feet in one minute. You can make up whatever combination of feet and pounds you like. As long as the product is 33,000 foot-pounds in one minute, you have a horsepower.

Y­ou can probably imagine that you would not want to load 33,000 pounds of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to move it 1 foot in a minute because the horse couldn't budge that big a load. You can probably also imagine that you would not want to put 1 pound of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to run 33,000 feet in one minute, since that translates into 375 miles per hour and horses can't run that fast. However, if you have read How a Block and Tackle Works, you know that with a block and tackle you can easily trade perceived weight for distance using an arrangement of pulleys. So you could create a block and tackle system that puts a comfortable amount of weight on the horse at a comfortable speed no matter how much weight is actually in the bucket.

Horsepower can be converted into other units as well. For example:

1 horsepower is equivalent to 746 watts. So if you took a 1-horsepower horse and put it on a treadmill, it could operate a generator producing a continuous 746 watts.
1 horsepower (over the course of an hour) is equivalent to 2,545 BTU (British thermal units). If you took that 746 watts and ran it through an electric heater for an hour, it would produce 2,545 BTU (where a BTU is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 pound of water 1 degree F).
One BTU is equal to 1,055 joules, or 252 gram-calories or 0.252 food Calories. Presumably, a horse producing 1 horsepower would burn 641 Calories in one hour if it were 100-percent efficient.

jblye wrote:Here's everything that you might want to know about horsepower.....maybe more than you want to know.
Johnny
......................................................

Horsepower= ( RPM x torque) divided by 5252

Chances are you've heard about horsepower. Just about every car ad on TV mentions it, people talking about their cars bandy the word about and even most lawn mowers have a big sticker on them to tell you the horsepower rating.

The term horsepower was invented by the engineer James Watt. Watt lived from 1736 to 1819 and is most famous for his work on improving the performance of steam engines. We are also reminded of him every day when we talk about 60-watt light bulbs.

The story goes that Watt was working with ponies lifting coal at a coal mine, and he wanted a way to talk about the power available from one of these animals. He found that, on average, a mine pony could do 22,000 foot-pounds of work in a minute. He then increased that number by 50 percent and pegged the measurement of horsepower at 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute. It is that arbitrary unit of measure that has made its way down through the centuries and now appears on your car, your lawn mower, your chain saw and even in some cases your vacuum cleaner.

What horsepower means is this: In Watt's judgement, one horse can do 33,000 foot-pounds of work every minute. So, imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine as shown above. A horse exerting 1 horsepower can raise 330 pounds of coal 100 feet in a minute, or 33 pounds of coal 1,000 feet in one minute, or 1,000 pounds 33 feet in one minute. You can make up whatever combination of feet and pounds you like. As long as the product is 33,000 foot-pounds in one minute, you have a horsepower.

Y­ou can probably imagine that you would not want to load 33,000 pounds of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to move it 1 foot in a minute because the horse couldn't budge that big a load. You can probably also imagine that you would not want to put 1 pound of coal in the bucket and ask the horse to run 33,000 feet in one minute, since that translates into 375 miles per hour and horses can't run that fast. However, if you have read How a Block and Tackle Works, you know that with a block and tackle you can easily trade perceived weight for distance using an arrangement of pulleys. So you could create a block and tackle system that puts a comfortable amount of weight on the horse at a comfortable speed no matter how much weight is actually in the bucket.

Horsepower can be converted into other units as well. For example:

1 horsepower is equivalent to 746 watts. So if you took a 1-horsepower horse and put it on a treadmill, it could operate a generator producing a continuous 746 watts.
1 horsepower (over the course of an hour) is equivalent to 2,545 BTU (British thermal units). If you took that 746 watts and ran it through an electric heater for an hour, it would produce 2,545 BTU (where a BTU is the amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 pound of water 1 degree F).
One BTU is equal to 1,055 joules, or 252 gram-calories or 0.252 food Calories. Presumably, a horse producing 1 horsepower would burn 641 Calories in one hour if it were 100-percent efficient.

Probably isn't about the horsepower but more about the deprivation of Liberty based on a definition

But fair play you have the definition covered

I'm out of here

http://wishtv.com/2014/03/28/tighter-in ... -into-law/

No biggie. No license still required but do need tags in case of an accident, etc.. They want your money.

SECoda wrote: They want your money.

But they'll happily take your liberty instead.

gn2 wrote:

SECoda wrote: They want your money.

But they'll happily take your liberty instead.

Pfft, why settle for one or the other when you can have both ?

Just be glad you can take a selfie with a tiger that is now illegal in NY.

speedandstyle wrote:Just be glad you can take a selfie with a tiger that is now illegal in NY.

Will do

How are they supplementing the tigers diets now that they are not eating the tasty New Yorkers that backed up to their cages?

If you have a regular motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license then the new Indiana laws will have NO effect REGARDLESS of what you ride. The new laws target people who ride without a standard motorcycle endorsement (or driver's license) which can only be done on a 50cc or smaller bike.

cessna151 wrote:If you have a regular motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license then the new Indiana laws will have NO effect REGARDLESS of what you ride.

There is one exception... If you ride a 50cc or smaller bike that has no license plate then passengers are prohibited.

cessna151 wrote:

cessna151 wrote:If you have a regular motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license then the new Indiana laws will have NO effect REGARDLESS of what you ride.

There is one exception... If you ride a 50cc or smaller bike that has no license plate then passengers are prohibited.

Don't break the law otherwise you will be a criminal...

There just specifying your @rsehole, once you gleefully agree then you'll take it up it.

cessna151 wrote:If you have a regular motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license then the new Indiana laws will have NO effect REGARDLESS of what you ride. The new laws target people who ride without a standard motorcycle endorsement (or driver's license) which can only be done on a 50cc or smaller bike.

I have a motorcycle endorsement on my license, but what I was wondering about were the new bike classifications A and B for license plates. I know class B is for bikes 50cc or less, but class A is for bikes with less than 5 braking horsepower. No engine size is specified for class A, just 5 braking horsepower. So what would a class A bike be? My PCX has a motorcycle plate right now.

mopeds! A classic Whizzer has an engine larger than 50cc but hp less than 5. I assume the Chinese kits that fit bicycles are similar. So my guess it is to cover them?

speedandstyle wrote:mopeds! A classic Whizzer has an engine larger than 50cc but hp less than 5. I assume the Chinese kits that fit bicycles are similar. So my guess it is to cover them?

I guess it's possible it would be actual mopeds, but a motorcycle endorsement is required for a class A bike, so that doesn't really make sense either, since a motorcycle endorsement is not required for 50cc bikes. It would be nice if laws were clear and easy to understand.

Indyglow wrote: It would be nice if laws were clear and easy to understand.

That will be the day!