Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

[robertinino]

This is what Ed said about spanish variators. But where Ed is? I don't understand we your combo upgrade didn't work well as Ed said.....

[robertinino]

half second less between 19 and 18 grams - 0-100 km. May be 1 second difference with 17 grams, if the fuel efficency will be quite te same I try 17 grams solution. This is the best solution before to change variator I suppose
In italy many people speak very well about malossi variator
R

[Mario]

Ordered

[sendler2112]

Now you have caught the bug to spend money. I will be interested to see how you like the stiffer spring and what it does to a 40-100-80-120 run. I tried a stiffer spring in my PCX but then took it right back out. A stiffer contra spring has the same effect as going lighter with the weights but with the added benefit/ drawback of increasing belt tension. I found a slight loss of fuel efficiency and top speed with the stiff spring. Probably since it was squeezing the belt to a slightly narrower effective width and wasting some more energy as heat. Let's see if the increased belt tension will case the rear pulley halves to drag more against the action of the torque slot as it tries to change the rpms up and down with rapid throttle changes making the trans feel less zippy.
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You can measure the real spring rate difference using a scale. put each spring on the scale and measure the amount of weight that you have to stack on top of each one in order to force a 30% sag. Some of these springs measure way different than the manufacturer states and can be 30% stiffer which is a huge change.
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The clutch? Ehh. What was wrong with the old clutch?

[robertinino]

super Marioooo

let us know ..... I never think to change the clutch,in qhat is better? in acceleration?

R

[Mario]

Let's wait and see the results when I have it, its about the same as a Hit Clutch from Dr.Pulley, and the stiffer spring should bring a better midrange, it's a hot selling combo in Malaysia.

[sendler2112]

That's BS. How can a clutch do any of that? After the initial launch and engagement, a centrifugal clutch is locked on and can make no difference whatsoever. The only way a clutch can change anything si if the stock clutch is slipping at launch differently. or if you set the springs to a higher engagement rpm. Once it is locked within the first second of take off, it's job is done.

[Mario]

Like I said before lets wait and see, the only thing I expect is a faster first meters the rest will be a bonus

[sendler2112]

That much you can expect. By choosing the springs that set a higher engagement rpm. You can go higher up to a point that makes it too jumpy for easy control in parking lot situations.

[robertinino]

what do you think about SPRING SLIDER?
r

[waspmike]

Temting

http://www.motoclassicparts.com/variado ... 10-00.html

Autisa. The tech guy behind J Costa left or was forced out, so now he has a new company and improvements to his J Costa design. Square weights for more contact area so longer life, so far 25,000kms on a 125 Kymco. Larger variators last longer than small ones.

In some specialized forum they didn't speak well about j costa, because isn't reliable.

Make sure you check the dates of the posts and what type of riding they did. Yes J Costa is not for US style long distance freeway riding, it was never designed for that and should be considered a racing type upgrade and not suitable for extended highway use....It is for twisty roads/urban traffic where you are on and of the throttle.

Some of the earlier Vespa clearance problems were fixed a long time ago. Check out the T-Max forums and see what you get! Don't forget that guys with performance variators never go back to riding slow they are always riding quite hard.

[robertinino]

thank you waspmike
what variator do you prefer J costa or Autisia?

[robertinino]

someone can help me? I'm very confused now, I don't know in which way is better tuning the cvt now:
1 The experiment combo (mix: rollers sliders) upgrade suggested by Bred was failed. Mario wasn't satisfied
2 The stock honda variator combined with Dr Pulley sliders 17.18 grams works not to bad, but is it enough for brilliant performance?...........Mario preferred to add a new clutck for better acceleration.
3 In specialized forum many people said that change variator is the best solution in terms of performance. But which brand of variator is optimal for honda forza 300?
4 Someone have experiance about Polini Malossi j costa or Autisia? The most reliable seems to be the Malossi. The most performance j Costa.
5 Autisia variator could be a good compromise between performance and reliability?
6 In every of these solutions someone said that always needs to add a spring slider.......

R

[sendler2112]

I'm afraid that you now have the bug to just end up wasting money. These manufacturers specialize in printing out charts that show how wonderful their product is and show it making changes that are not scientifically possible. People on forums put them on and rave about the "changes" without even doing any timed runs.
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A $30 set of light sliders is well worth it to gain a slight increase of gearing range at launch and to raise the pulling rpm up closer to the power band to slice a full second off of the 0-80 kmh time.

[Mario]

Robert,

If you are looking for more top speed forget the Forza and buy a bigger scoot, the video's you see them going faster is downhill or/and flat on there belly.

Mario

[waspmike]

I'm afraid that you now have the bug to just end up wasting money. These manufacturers specialize in printing out charts that show how wonderful their product is and show it making changes that are not scientifically possible. People on forums put them on and rave about the "changes" without even doing any timed runs.
.
A $30 set of light sliders is well worth it to gain a slight increase of gearing range at launch and to raise the pulling rpm up closer to the power band to slice a full second off of the 0-80 kmh time.

From what I have seen you need a good aftermarket exhaust on a Forza to get real gains for aftermarket variators. The variator can only unleash what is unleashable. If the exhaust is choking the motor then...

[sendler2112]

see nexttt

[sendler2112]

From what I have seen you need a good aftermarket exhaust on a Forza to get real gains for aftermarket variators. The variator can only unleash what is unleashable. If the exhaust is choking the motor then...

Not sure about that one either. The stock variator can be tuned to pull at any given rpm by changing the weights. Just like the aftermarket variators can. If the power peak is at 7,000. tune to 7,000. If it moves up to 7,500 with an exhaust and a fuel controller then tune the variator to pull at 7,500. This whole thing becomes a never ending and cascading waste of money until you finally end up with a mishmash of stuff on the bike that it doesn't even run right.

[waspmike]

Not sure about that one either. The stock variator can be tuned to pull at any given rpm by changing the weights. Just like the aftermarket variators can. If the power peak is at 7,000. tune to 7,000. If it moves up to 7,500 with an exhaust and a fuel controller then tune the variator to pull at 7,500. This whole thing becomes a never ending and cascading waste of money until you finally end up with a mishmash of stuff on the bike that it doesn't even run right.

My exhaust post was based on a scooter with after market variator with and without exhaust. It is much better with and gets about 5hp more. This is of course because the aftermarket allows the engine to rev more. Sure you can play with weights but as you say as soon as that starts then the counter spring is wrong or...or...

The key is to decide what one wants or wants to do at the beginning. Then one buys all the parts to get there. The fools errand is buying one bit at a time as you say.

I've only as far as I know seen one guy on here who actually said what he wanted

I need 8-9 seconds time in acceleration, max speed 140 km

The problem them becomes does he really want to pay what it will cost to get that? Maybe he is lucky and set the target low.

Most guys buy one bit from here because they read something, then another bit for there etc.. with no clear goal. Until as you say they end up with a mishmash. Ok some guys like a hobby, nothing wrong with that and they learn a lot but mostly about what not to do.

Sorry there is nothing on TV this evening.

[waspmike]

Not doing very well this evening too many typos hopefully I got them all and will have to compose in word as the edit function keeps timing out.