2013 Performance

[SECoda]

I have already decided that my PCX is the perfect scenic cruiser in these Ozark foothills for non-interstate riding, camping, and it is fine on roads up to 55-60 but I need something else for distance running on the interstate. Sounds like a idea for the next annual bonus. Something in that 300-400 cc category.

[ScooterMan]

I have already decided that my PCX is the perfect scenic cruiser in these Ozark foothills for non-interstate riding, camping, and it is fine on roads up to 55-60 but I need something else for distance running on the interstate. Sounds like a idea for the next annual bonus. Something in that 300-400 cc category.

I've determined that my existing mods (intake & exhaust, NCY var & face) along with minor weight reduction (12-15lbs), my light weight (150lbs) and a little extra air in the tires (to reduce rolling resistance) and fitting slightly lighter tires when the time comes (Michelin City Grips) will all hopefully translate to the bike being acceptable in most conditions. Yes, there are some freeways 45mins to an hour north-east of me that have some steep grades and aren't that crowded and people tend to go 80-85 up them (PCX even optimized would be going 65mph or so with me in a full tuck up those hills). And yet, would I want to sacrafice all the benefits of the PCX over a much larger, heavier, more expensive scoot just to succeed on those rare days where I would "Like" to have a bit more power to push through some heavy winds or a steep grade rarely encountered?

I honestly think if I was heavier, I would have a harder time, as if I weighed 200-225lbs, The same hills that have me going 65 up them, may have me going 55mph! So, I don't want to knock everyone that says it's not enough power...I understand. Even at 150lbs, I wish I was lighter! I found myself weighing my new gloves the other day and they were 6oz. lighter...I cheered a bit in my head before I realized how crazy I'm getting! Lol.

[SECoda]

lol I am 215 lbs and we have highways marked 70 everywhere out in the sticks. Most folks push 75-80 for normal driving and they have some steep hills. My buddies Majesty 400 is relatively small compared to a Forza really flies down the interstate. It has plenty of passing power at 70 mph. Weight is only the low 400s. It is still pretty nimble compared to big bikes but the PCX is better for the 25-50 range IMO. I am waiting for bad weather and an OEM belt to throw the NCY stuff in and will see how it does first.

[ScooterMan]

lol I am 215 lbs and we have highways marked 70 everywhere out in the sticks. Most folks push 75-80 for normal driving and they have some steep hills. My buddies Majesty 400 is relatively small compared to a Forza really flies down the interstate. It has plenty of passing power at 70 mph. Weight is only the low 400s. It is still pretty nimble compared to big bikes but the PCX is better for the 25-50 range IMO. I am waiting for bad weather and an OEM belt to throw the NCY stuff in and will see how it does first.

Bad weather? If you told me to change mine right now...I could be done in 15-30 minutes. Get to it!
Also, that Majesty is 200lbs heavier!

I'm looking forward to the day when I come across a guy on a Honda Reflex on the freeway tapped out at full throttle, and I pass him going 79 on my PCX. =) That thing was no quicker than my PCX with it's added weight, top speed or accel. Forza would spank me though. Lol.

SEcoda...you may be a candidate for a bigger scoot, but you WILL DEFINITELY notice an improvement with the new NCY parts. Your ability to maintain 70 will be easier than maintaining 60mph with the stock vario. IMO.

[SECoda]

My wife said I really nurse these tiny projects. I am in the high-end ($2k b4 scope) airgun hobby too and we modify and tune them making for fun projects. These airguns can shoot under an inch at 100 yards (not my grandpa's Red Ryder lol). Anyway, I got the pulley holder but should see the belt in the next few days. Rain is forecast for the next 3-4 days. For gusty days at interstate speeds 150+ lbs or so is ok but it dinks it on the slow end. I never buy just one of anything except an airplane I have since sold that was a black hole for $$$.

[sendler2112]

airguns

I modified my Crosman Challenger to shoot 12 fpe with a regulator.

[SECoda]

Sorry for off-topic.

airguns

I modified my Crosman Challenger to shoot 12 fpe with a regulator.

avatar2.jpg (70.23 KiB) Viewed 2364 times

[vamootsman]

Installed my NCY variator and drive face in 30 minutes left stock rollers in.
Took it out and it had no low to midrange power, would hit 72-75 downhill but had to be behind a truck to maintain 70 on the flat.
Took it back apart and drilled the rollers out to 15 grams and put her back together. Got bit better acceleration but top speeds remain the same.
Rode it 185 miles yesterday to Des Moines Iowa on I80 and held my own. Even passed some vehicles when I was in a good draft. (I'm a bike racer and we're all about drafting, and mostly nuts). Did some highways too and can maintain 65-68, but that WOT. Pretty pleased so far since I didn't have time to do the exhaust and pod filter yet.
Gonna drill the Rollers out to 13grams, and ride it, then do the exhaust, then do the filter. Was going to do the reverse order, but time got away from me.
Should be able to tell if I have any more power fairly easily. Will keep you posted.

FWIT,, My PCX held its own on the Interstate, and as long as positioned myself well in traffic, didn't feel unstable at all. Yeah I got pushed around, but I'm used to it, so no big deal. so far I've spent $6.45 on fuel!

[ScooterMan]

Yeah, I mesg'd you about the lighter rollers I think. I have a pair of stock 2013's (18g), stock 2015's (16G) and some NCY (13g) that came with the NCY "Super Transmission kit" that the prev owner installed on the bike. Haven't tried running the 13G with just the NCY vario and drive face yet. I haven't gotten to fully compare my 18g's to 16g's at top speed yet either, and have the 16g's in my newer scooter (which supposedly has a lower final gear ratio, so expecting a loss of 2mph at the top if true), but I don't feel the big downshift at 40-45mph that I felt with the 18g's. Not really sure if you're going to lose top speed with the 13g's. Certainly, it will accel quicker...I still need to do some more experimenting myself.

As a sidenote, I had the pod filter on my 2013, then went through the troble of swapping it to my 2015. However, I'm thinking of putting the airbox back on due to the noise. Will spend a nother tank or two testing speed & mpg before doing so (if I do it) but sort of thinking that I'd be fine with just removing in "screen" behind the filter and the "snorkel" in the airbox. Did so on one of the bikes I sold yesterday before riding it over to the new owner and I feel like I felt a noticeable difference. If it's making a difference and added very minimal volume to the experience vs. a pod filter, it may be the way to go for me. =)

[Duggle]

As a sidenote, I had the pod filter on my 2013, then went through the troble of swapping it to my 2015. However, I'm thinking of putting the airbox back on due to the noise. Will spend a nother tank or two testing speed & mpg before doing so (if I do it) but sort of thinking that I'd be fine with just removing in "screen" behind the filter and the "snorkel" in the airbox. Did so on one of the bikes I sold yesterday before riding it over to the new owner and I feel like I felt a noticeable difference. If it's making a difference and added very minimal volume to the experience vs. a pod filter, it may be the way to go for me. =)

I wonder how much one of the K&N filters would help in the stock air box, or is the air box itself too restrictive? At least it would be quieter. Does it get much louder if you remove the snorkel?

[sendler2112]

The stock filter for the PCX is gigantic for the small amount of displacement. KnN filter won't make any appreciable difference. The big change from a pod filter is not from increased flow rate but more from eliminating the tuned intake runner that you still need if you ever want to get any type of fuel economy.

[ScooterMan]

The stock filter for the PCX is gigantic for the small amount of displacement. KnN filter won't make any appreciable difference. The big change from a pod filter is not from increased flow rate but more from eliminating the tuned intake runner that you still need if you ever want to get any type of fuel economy.

So you're advocating in favor of keeping the stock airbox? I know on sportbikes, the airbox attaches to the throttle bodies with no runners to speak of, and typically has some small 1-2" velocity stacks. My MPG so far on my 2015 just riding mellow around town (no more than 50mph has been 114mpg with the pod filter. As much as I like the noise short term, just thinking it could wear on me. Willing to put up with it for a benefit, but not if there's no benefit or a loss! I mean, the 2+ lbs saved from removing the airbox is a plus, but anyway. Will need to do some top speed testing up some hills between the two on similar temp, humidity & wind conditions, with similar loads to see.

[ScooterMan]

I really believe the airbox is more about lengthening service intervals compared to a pod filter among other things (read on). An airbox provides all weather capability, and silences the intake by enclosing the intake in an airbox and using a series of specially designed chambers to mute intake noise. The length of the runner may not be for "tuning purposes" but rather to route the runner to the area where the airbox is for ease of maintenance.

That said, was just reading a post on the Honda Grom forum where a guy gained 3mph up a hill 43-46mph by ditching the airbox and putting on a pod filter directly on the throttle body. Intake tuned length is really only effective at a certain RPM. WHich, works great for top Fuel Dragsters which run down the track at a specific RPM. to reiterate, I believe the PCX's airbox/intake design is for the reasons mentioned above, not necessarily for performance gain. Basically, it's got as good of performance it can have while doing those 3 things that Honda decided it must do!

1) be weather proof
2) longer service intervals between replacement (increased service intervals are a selling point of any vehicle)
3) reduce intake noise

No matter what, if I have to give up so accel in the lower revs/speeds in order to gain top end power, it's worth it since much of my driving is done on the freeway.

[sendler2112]

The long intake runner creates a tuned resonance in the air column which moves the torque peak to a lower rpm and increases it. A pod will move the power to a higher rpm and unless you dyno tune will throw the mixture off of the map. It might increase full throttle power above 9,000 and might take away from anything between 6,000 and 8,000.

[vamootsman]

Installed my NCY variator and drive face in 30 minutes left stock rollers in.
Took it out and it had no low to midrange power, would hit 72-75 downhill but had to be behind a truck to maintain 70 on the flat.
Took it back apart and drilled the rollers out to 15 grams and put her back together. Got bit better acceleration but top speeds remain the same.
Rode it 185 miles yesterday to Des Moines Iowa on I80 and held my own. Even passed some vehicles when I was in a good draft. (I'm a bike racer and we're all about drafting, and mostly nuts). Did some highways too and can maintain 65-68, but that WOT. Pretty pleased so far since I didn't have time to do the exhaust and pod filter yet.
Gonna drill the Rollers out to 13grams, and ride it, then do the exhaust, then do the filter. Was going to do the reverse order, but time got away from me.
Should be able to tell if I have any more power fairly easily. Will keep you posted.

FWIT,, My PCX held its own on the Interstate, and as long as positioned myself well in traffic, didn't feel unstable at all. Yeah I got pushed around, but I'm used to it, so no big deal. so far I've spent $6.45 on fuel!

So rode home today on I35 and I80, southeast wind at about 6mph.
Top speeds were same, as to be expected. Did some really good drafting and cut the trip time down and was actually catching groups of Trucks and cars by jumping in behind trucks vans and SUV's. I know what the hypermilers are up to now.

Love the scoot, but needs a little more power. Hopefully the Exhaust/filter will help. 1-2 horsepower would be a huge gain with this thing.

Used 5.8 gallons of gas for a 400 mile trip. 69 miles per gallon at WOT most of the time is pretty good IMO.

Gonna drill the rollers tomorrow and see what happens to accel, and top end. Exhaust and Filter after.

Then buying another one so my son and I can do some short touring on them. He wants black. (So do I).

[ScooterMan]

Very nice Vamootsman. You may want to just buy some different weights. NCY makes some and they're on the web for $20 a set (I forget where, maybe Amazon). Anyway, I've been waffling on the pod filter. Rode mine yesterday again, and know I'm liking the pod filter more again. Lol.

When are you going to mount up that exhaust? Also, what speed were you hitting the limiter at? Going to buy your son a new 2015 or a used 2013?

[sendler2112]

pod filter

It may actually take a few days for the O2 sensor to adapt the mixture to the pod filter to really get the most out of it. A fuel controller programmed with data from a wide band O2 logger would be handy for anyone making any major engine mods such as removing the intake runner. These are not like carburetors which act as an airflow meter. The fuel injection is set to a map. The O2 sensor can make some slight global corrections for something like an exhaust but so anything like a piston or cam and the mixture will have no clue.

[vamootsman]

Very nice Vamootsman. You may want to just buy some different weights. NCY makes some and they're on the web for $20 a set (I forget where, maybe Amazon). Anyway, I've been waffling on the pod filter. Rode mine yesterday again, and know I'm liking the pod filter more again. Lol.

When are you going to mount up that exhaust? Also, what speed were you hitting the limiter at? Going to buy your son a new 2015 or a used 2013?

Didn't get to he rollers today. Too rainy to ride til Wed so will worry about it then.
I can Drill them out on my press in few minutes, so gonna finish drilling these then maybe buy some others weights to experiment with if need be. Does Would using 3 13gr and 3 15gr do anything? I don't fully understand the vario physics so don't shoot me if it's a dumb question.

I hit the rev limiter at 80mph on the stand, but can't cant close to that on the road.

Exhaust will come this week if all goes well.

May get myself a 15 and let my son ride the 13 since I want a bigger tank, unless I can score a good deal on 13 or 14. saving a grand or more leaves a lot of play money to deck out a new to me sled.

[sendler2112]

You need at tach so you know where to set the weights to get the pulling rpm to 8,000.
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http://www.amazon.com/Koso-North-Americ ... B0041QMSE0
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[vamootsman]

You need at tach so you know where to set the weights to get the pulling rpm to 8,000.
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http://www.amazon.com/Koso-North-Americ ... B0041QMSE0
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Ordered! Thanks for the link!