Yuminashi variator and belt

[sendler2112]

Shortening the boss may allow the belt to travel further up the pulley but it also has the potential to limit the travel downwards so in effect can raise "first' gear. Indicated by the fact that the fuzzy washer favoured by NP3 riders to lower the "first" gear for better off the line acceleration. If one is going to shorten the boss then one should also machine the bottom of the variator face to maintain the "original" distance at low rpm.

If anything, these bikes are prone to chatter on accel from a stop due to the front pulley opening up too wide and losing contact with the belt. There is no more low gear to be had by adding any spacers.
.
Milling the boss after installing sliders will increase top gear by pushing the belt all the way out onto the previously unused portion of the variator face. And prevent the chatter on take off. But it will start to make a slight misalignment.

[waspmike]

Shortening the boss may allow the belt to travel further up the pulley but it also has the potential to limit the travel downwards so in effect can raise "first' gear. Indicated by the fact that the fuzzy washer favoured by NP3 riders to lower the "first" gear for better off the line acceleration. If one is going to shorten the boss then one should also machine the bottom of the variator face to maintain the "original" distance at low rpm.

If anything, these bikes are prone to chatter on accel from a stop due to the front pulley opening up too wide and losing contact with the belt. There is no more low gear to be had by adding any spacers.
.
Milling the boss after installing sliders will increase top gear by pushing the belt all the way out onto the previously unused portion of the variator face. And prevent the chatter on take off. But it will start to make a slight misalignment.

My fuzzy washer reference was for clarity not for PCX, simply to explain the opposite of shortening the boss. Some variators as I mentioned lengthen the boss but that needs to factored into the whole package.

Chatter is something that exists on some bikes but not on others. Sometimes I post as a catalyst for thought not always for succinct information.

[Mgalutia88]

Wingz, have you priced a takegawa aviator and reinforced belt from webike? It would be cheaper than a gear kit. Also the pcx esp models use a 13/44 gear set as opposed to the pcx v1 13/53. That's a 20.4% change in gearing. You can get the factory gears for cheap. Roughly the same cost as the kitaco kit.

[Mgalutia88]

Yuminashi uses this gear set I n the speed test video for their variator on a pcx125 v1

[waspmike]

Also the pcx esp models use a 13/44 gear set as opposed to the pcx v1 13/53. That's a 20.4% change in gearing.

It's late here and I'm 4 beers ahead but I got 16.9% am I doing it wrong?

[Mgalutia88]

(53/13)/(44/13)

[wingz]

If anything, these bikes are prone to chatter on accel from a stop due to the front pulley opening up too wide and losing contact with the belt. There is no more low gear to be had by adding any spacers.
.
Milling the boss after installing sliders will increase top gear by pushing the belt all the way out onto the previously unused portion of the variator face. And prevent the chatter on take off. But it will start to make a slight misalignment.

This is good.
By my calcs, I only need to move the belt out 2mm meaning I need to shorten the boss by 2 x 2sin(15°) ≈ 1mm.

Is it worth stressing about 1mm misalignment?

Wingz, have you priced a takegawa aviator and reinforced belt from webike? It would be cheaper than a gear kit..

I looked and agree it is not expensive. I also wonder if the reinforced belt is lower profile - that would give more gear range.

The shortened boss would achieve the required increase in gearing without costing a cent and then there is no shipping hassle to deal with.
I'm still waiting for my sliders by the way.
To my mind, a gear kit would be the next mod if maxing the gearing through variator/boss mods is insufficient.

Also the pcx esp models use a 13/44 gear set as opposed to the pcx v1 13/53. That's a 20.4% change in gearing. You can get the factory gears for cheap. Roughly the same cost as the kitaco kit.

Not according to you...

Ok so Kitaco DID tell me that their high gear kit does not fit the pcx 150, however, according to the honda parts schematics it should!!! Kitaco and Yuminashi went about replacing different gears. Kitaco replaces gear number 07 in the diagram, while yuminashi goes about the change by replacing both gears 06 & 08.

Pcx v1
http://www.advantagepowersports.com/fic ... veh=190428

Pcx esp models
http://www.advantagepowersports.com/fic ... veh=135098

The gears 05&07 are identical tooth count for all pcx models however gear 05 is a different p/n. Gears 06&08 however are the same on pcx 125esp and 150esp models but different on the 2011 pcx. They are 13/47 on the v1 pcx while 13/44 on pcx esp models.

All this being said, with gear 07 being the same p/n and the gear Kitaco replaces it should be compatible and I wonder what would happen if you replaced both? What could you possibly do?

Also the pcx esp models use a 13/44 gear set as opposed to the pcx v1 13/53. That's a 20.4% change in gearing.

It's late here and I'm 4 beers ahead but I got 16.9% am I doing it wrong?

You mean -16.9%? But the quoted figures are wrong anyway.
Anyway, the pcx v1 is provides lower gearing. That is, 44/47 = 0.936 of the esp gearbox in other words -6.38%.
Would be nice to do that mod in reverse (for those with PCX v1 scooters).

[Mgalutia88]

tTank you wingz for catching that. I mixed up the gear pairs. The 13/53 pair is the same on all PCX models and is the pair Kitaco addresses with their high gear kit. The 13/44 or 13/47 pair on the other hand is the pair that is interchangeable between pcx models. I just looked up the pcx 125 esp p/n and it is again different for pair 6/8. Theoreticly pair 5/7, since it has the same part number for all three pcx models should be able to use the kitaco gear kit for all models. Pair 6/8 is the pair addressed by Yuminashi and should be interchangeable between all pcx models as a pair. This would mean that early pcx models could swap to the late pcx esp gearing for a significant increase; to rephrase, pcx 125 models can swap to the 13/44 from the pcx 150 from the 13/47 gear pair for a 6.8 % increase.

Sorry for the mix up guys, too much seasame street and diaper changing going on to keep things straight

[waspmike]

Well I switched all you problems for beer and still came out wrong!

[Mgalutia88]

Received this message early this morning from Kitaco.

You are correct, Kitaco high gear kit 305-1426010 is installable on PCX150, but actually we have not had enough test for performance for this model yet, because we developed high gear kit for PCX125 engines. That is why we do not announce that is for PCX150 yet.

So the Kitaco kit is another viable option for us 150 guys.

[mikelx5]

so that being said does that mean the 150 would have enough power to push it if the 125 needs a lil oomph to do it effectivly?
im runing a leo pipe and winrus intake so im most likely looking at a little oomph on top

[Mgalutia88]

Good question. I figure that either way any version of the pcx is more likely to push an extra 3.9% in gearing than the yuminashi kit being 20.5 for the pcx 125 v1 or 12.8 for the pcx 150 esp. In real world changes that's from 79mph to 82mph instead of to 89mph in my case. I don't believe that I have the power to push that kind of change with the increase in wind resistance with speed. That would lower my rpms at 81mph from 9600 to 8371.2rpm. It's just too big of a change.

To get back to the question, you would have the power to see increased fuel economy wether or not you saw an increase in speed. You would run lower rpms at the same speed. Would that not be worth a little money?

[wingz]

Good question. I figure that either way any version of the pcx is more likely to push an extra 3.9% in gearing than the yuminashi kit being 20.5 for the pcx 125 v1 or 12.8 for the pcx 150 esp. In real world changes that's from 79mph to 82mph instead of to 89mph in my case. I don't believe that I have the power to push that kind of change with the increase in wind resistance with speed. That would lower my rpms at 81mph from 9600 to 8371.2rpm. It's just too big of a change.

On the contrary, it sounds about spot on to me. Although one may be able to achieve the same increase just by shortening the boss.
If the gearing is too high then the variator will work to decrease it.
Ideally one would have 8500rpm at WOT regardless of speed. That said, once we get to 80mph I don't mind running a little over 8500rpm. It helps regulate the speed.

[waspmike]

If worried about alignment one could always add a shim/washer of the same thickness to re establish the alignment. Accepting of course that if MP3 guys lengthen the boss to improve acceleration, shortening it will have the opposite effect.

[wingz]

I just realised that it is possible that shortening the boss won't work.
That would be the case if the inner pulley butts up against the outer pulley before max gearing is reached.
If/when I eventually get my sliders I'll take a close look at the pulleys to see how much leeway there is.

[waspmike]

Yes the maximum gearing will be reached when the pulley halves touch. If they are allowed to. But this would allow the halves to bump/wear. You could check for evidence of this.

If you have any unused pulley surface at the outside. Then simple trigonometry would tell you.

If you are the empirical type stuff like Blue Tack rolled in a sausage and stuck to the fixed pulley around the boss would also tell you if the bushing reaches completely. There are hi tech plastic shim-like devices but Blue Tack will work in a pinch (Pun Intended). UHU makes yellow stuff but real tradesmen use blue!

But it is CVT so there is more than one variable. But its winter in most places this week so....

[Mgalutia88]

The main thing to keep in mind is that many aftermarket variators require shimming behind the roller retaining plate. Both the NCY and yuminashi do and the yuminashi comes with aa shim. Also the factory variator when used with sliders requires a shim too. Play with the boss and then buy a new one from honda. It will probably cost around $10

I said all that to say this. There are multiple people on this forum who have said positive things about sliders in the takegawa variator. Just remember that when you change the characteristics of the variator your started on a short life for your stock belt. I got 2000 miles on my stock belt after I installed my NCY variator (not transmission kit, just the variator) before I had significant belt stretch, ie I lost 5 mph on the top end.

[Mgalutia88]

Just as you said... Your opinion. Most exhausts don't add power, there are probably three of four that actually do and those add .75 to 1.5 hp at redline!!! Just like building a hotrod you need to match parts to make it worth your while. With my mods I have increased my top speed by 19%, average economy by 17.3% and increased my riding pleasure. What part of that was a waste? I've added a quiet performance exhaust, replaced the intake back to the throttle body for a .25" larger tube and come filter in the air box, swapped the belt and variator myself (15 minutes start to finish ), added a givi short screen and added soft sodded saddle bags. I get 88mpg and have the ability to hit 81mph.

I love that! If I want to carve corners or go fast I have a modified Porsche 944 (internal engine work and koni's) in the garage and a daily driver for hauling around the family. Heck I have a Honda Spree when I want to put around too. To each his own, let's not discourage others from modifying their toys the way they want.


Admin ninja edit by Maddiedog -- This post doesn't make complete sense, because some posts were moved to the Drama and Bullcrap subforum from another user trolling, you can see them here: http://hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2137. I left this post here because it added to the thread, even though it was a reply to trolling.

[hatari]

J

I have a modified Porsche 944 (internal engine work and koni's) in the garage .

i had one from new - 1988 944 Turbo SE...250 bhp in Silver Rose metallic, one of only 75 brought into the UK.....nice car...didn't do any mods to it, other than fit a CD player.....

[mikelx5]

whats the strut brace any pics ?