ABS with Combined Braking System (CBS) on Forza

[Austins]

Now I read a lot of discussions about CBS on PCX, but not seen much for Forza. Although it is the same principle, that left brake applies the one piston (one cylinder) back brake and then also applies the small single middle piston (one cylinder) of the front brake (I understand front brake also has another cylinder with two larger pistons).

Jury is still out about how I feel about CBS, to be honest sometimes I like it a lot and sometimes not - mostly I am afraid of it when going round the corner fast and if raining or on slippery road with sand/dirt/gravel etc. - yes, yes, should brake before the bend and all that, but hey, sometime you need it...

You might say why, there is ABS preventing wheel locking, but have you activated front ABS on a bend recently on a slippery road... !? Well, I haven't but I am quite suspicious of the outcome and try to avoid it at all costs.

On the other hand I am quite happy to have ABS and activate it when going straight, as long as I can keep the front wheel in a straight line, I think it will be very useful and saves my backside proper from skidding and going down.

So I frequently test my brakes and ABS, the brakes are very good, as far as I can tell the same as I bought the bike last year when it was almost new at 750km, even with one finger I can stop really fast and easily and even activate the ABS - Forza has a very powerful and sharp brakes as you well know. So as for my test I go like 40km/h or a bit more straight, then pull the brakes suddenly. Right one activates ABS properly on front wheel, great. Now left one activates ABS on ...... ! Guess what, front wheel again, and not the back wheel ... ???? Yes, and that is what I don't understand and worries me, that is not suppose to happen, does it ? I certainly don't want ABS to be activated on front wheel in some places and what do I do then... !

Now people throw about percentages of how much the left brake distributes the power between front and back wheels, but I have never seen an official one from Honda, please let me know if you have. I am not sure, maybe they are just pushing the two cylinders (one back one front) evenly, but if there is some difference could this power distribution go wrong and need adjustment, like on my bike, if it has gone wrong... !?

Could you guys also test and let me know what you get from pulling hard on your Forza left brake handle... (old model preferably).

[gn2]

ABS functions independently of CBS.
The correct amount of fingers per lever is four.
Do not brake in turns, the Forza doesn't have cornering ABS.
The rear wheel will be unlocked by ABS when it needs to be.
Wet cobbles and oil spills have taught me that.

[davenowherejones]

The braking dynamics of a scooter are different than a motorcycle. A motorcycle has a weight transfer to the front wheel. The transfer is a lot less on a scooter so the rear wheel does more braking on a Forza.

I don't think the Forza can do a stoppie and I have tried a few times. The engine is part of the rear swingarm which makes the balance different.

If you are testing the ABS a lot I would check your brake pads frequently. My pads were wearing out because of a lack of grease on the brake pins in the callipers. I greased my front pins and got 100,000 km out of a set of pads. The rears wore down a lot faster.

I have 125,000 km on my Forza and I really need to replace the rear brake disk again. It looks to have a curved wear pattern. I should measure it. The difference between new and worn out is not very much.

[davenowherejones]

I have had a few motorcycles that always wore out the front pads substantially quicker than the rears.

The 2014 Forza 300 ABS CBS is the opposite. My fronts last forever and the rears disappear.

[davenowherejones]

Four fingers because my fingers are small.

[you you]

The correct amount of fingers per lever is four.

Other opinions are available.

[easyrider]

I have CBS and find it adequate in all my riding conditions.Many say its better to have ABS,but I havent been able to compare but CBS seems very good to me.

[iceman]

Slow down before any major bends, accelerate coming out of bends and don't try and do anything fancy or clever - probably never have an issue. Others that brake hard, corner fast whilst accelerating all the way and try to scrape their knees on tarmac - well . . .

[Austins]

Just to clarify I don't go around riding and braking with one finger, that was just to say how powerful Forza brakes are. Everyone has his favourite style, I normslly have 3 fingers on each brake, while holding the handle with other two.

Now as for CBS, yes of course it's great during normal and sensible driving, my question is in regard emergency, or unexpected slippery bend, when you suddenly have to jump on left brake. So why don't you do the test I mentioned, it's probably possible on PCX too, but be careful, no ABS there...!

If you pull the left brake hard and it locks front wheel or activate ABS on front wheel, don't you think that is wrong...!? Or potentially dangerous...?

[davenowherejones]

Not dangerous except you will stop quickly and you better get your feet down quickly or you will fall over.

I have tried ABS in a parking lot and in real life. It is pretty good on the Forza.

I even tried it going down a steep gravel road. It will unlock, forcing you to steer out of trouble. Scary but it works. On my dual sport I would lock the front wheel and crash skidding on the gravel. A turning wheel has control.

Using left and right brakes is best, use all four pistons. You need good tires for this to work best.

Being aware of your surroundings is even better. But people do stupid things sometimes.

I had a truck cross a road without bothering to even look if there was any traffic. I had to hit the brakes hard. ABS worked as it should. No problems.

I was one a four lane highway that everyone suddenly stopped. I have no idea why. My ABS worked. I looked at the vehicles around me and saw smoke coming from several tires. Something you don't notice in a car as well.

I like ABS.

The CBS helps if you do something dumb like only use the rear brake. I did that a few times on my dual sport and the rear was going sideways. Use both brakes all the time. Pay attention.

[Austins]

Yes ABS, CBS, TFS, PTS, RMS.... lol ..... all work really well when you are going in a straight line, try them when on a bend in a rainy day and a dog jumps on the road, you might have a different story to tell...

[Austins]

So no one out there brave enough to try their Forza C-ABS using the left brake handle... !? Just try it in a parking lot or when quiet at about 40kph and observe which wheel ABS is activated, mine is the front for sure, I just want to know if that is normal...!

To give you an incentive, they say you should activate your ABS every few months to get all those solenoid actuators and valves moving a bit - in case they get stock..., it's quite safe as long as you keep the front wheel straight..... :-)

(I wonder what the result on a PCX would be, if the front wheel locks and no ABS, that is even worse... !?)

[fish]

The OP lost me.
ABS is not some lurking danger under any circumstances...it simply prevents wheel lock-up when braking. ABS does not ever suddenly apply exceptional braking force no matter what the rider does. It does just the opposite - by overriding the rider's mistake...and preventing wheel lock-up.
Slipping down in a wet corner while braking is always the mistake of the rider.....not fault of tires, or brakes.
If you'd rather have your tire locked in a wet curve or on a straight. .....there are plenty of other non ABS bikes you'd enjoy....laying down with.
Fish

[Austins]

Okay, let's see if I can explain it better, every motorbike rider with more than a few days experience and some knowledge of two wheels knows that in some dangerous situation you don't want to use the front break too much, because you can lock the wheel and go down, even with ABS, I'm sure most of you guys don't say, hey I have ABS so let's pull that front brake to the end on the corner because I'm not going to lock my front wheel and go down...! You want to use it sensibly and with control and feel of your fingers...!?

So basically what a good rider does is use the front brake appropriately, and can do that because he is in control of how much pressure he applies, he will know this after 5 minutes on a new bike, he gets the feel for how sensitive the brakes are and how far he can pull the leaver safely.

Now, on a CBS you do "not" have this control, you do not know how much pressure is being applied to front brake when you pull the left leaver, and as I found out, it's quite hell of a lot. It basically means I am applying so much brake to the front wheel when pulling left leaver that I can activate the ABS on it, even before the back wheel...!?

Yes, it's okay most of the time, but on an occasion you want to avoid front brake and just use back brake, you don't have this option, you might say "but you never need it", that's another argument though..., basically the use of back brake alone has been removed, gone, your left leaver is really your front brake, try it and see how it locks or activate ABS on it.... !

Fish says:
"Slipping down in a wet corner while braking is always the mistake of the rider.....not fault of tires, or brakes. "

Yes, but how can a rider apply brake to each wheel appropriately when he has no control over how much pressure is going to each piston, on a slippery wet corner I apply more back brake and less front, but can not do that on a Forza, I asked you guys to test it and let me know if you can...!!!?

[gn2]

Don't brake in corners unless you got cornering ABS.
Simple.
Next question please.

[davenowherejones]

Just don't brake period. Let off the throttle before the corner, coast, then WOT!!!

Look where you want to go, think, go there.

Look at the road, not your phone, not your fancy speedo, not the pretty girls at the side of the road.

Look as far as you can see, look behind you often, look up high for falling objects.

[Haarek]

I'm not really getting OPs point, but I have a ABS Forza and my front and rear brakes are fully independent. If I press my left brake lever hard enough I will activate my ABS on the rear wheel only. The same goes for my right lever (activating front wheel abs only) The CBS version does not have ABS.

[gn2]

I think OP is talking about first gen Forza 300 which has combined brake and ABS.

[davenowherejones]

Austins, what country are you in?

If you are in an Asian country, no amount of braking will save you, they are all crazy drivers, especially Thailand.

If you are in Britain, they drive on the wrong side of the road.

Canada, the bears and moose are out to get you. (RCMP also)

[easyrider]

My first trip to Canada and I got a speeding ticket.On steep downgrade ..Several other misfortunates were getting written up at the same time.Revenue collection time.Guess I cant go back there.