Forza stutter at take off but also a bit after take off

[alx123]

you live in Phuket, that corrossion is to be expected.

Phuket-Thailand.jpg (871.3 KiB) Viewed 1380 times

use some anti-corrosion spray on your engine and chassis, you can find them online..

[Austins]

Yes, I think that cover maybe is aluminium but still it has something to do with humidity and high temperature and other materials around that area, I get it cleaned and spray something on it next time... , that guy didn't even get a rag to it, just said it's fine, smiled and put it back, these guys screw you with a smile here all the time, LOS... ! lol

And yes, Phuket is humid, but right now is near 28c so can't complain much, perfect for a ride, I'm off...

[Jge64]

It is aluminum oxide, and as said above, is that part that is corroding. I would sand it down, wipe it down with acetone and shoot it with two or three coats of blacki dip…

[davenowherejones]

I had the same stuff on mine but it looked like foam rubber between the metal (aluminum) and the plastic cover. Very difficult to get off and to polish. I don't think it was all corrosion. Seemed to be some glue in there.

[glencoeman]

I had the same white stuff on my Forza. The problem is that water gets in from the front when it rains as there is a small gap at the front of the plastic cover.

[Austins]

Well, as I thought it was too good to be true, the stutter and judder at very low speed and on take off is back after 1500km trip, it was there even half way through, so just cleaning the clutch shoes with emery 80 sandpaper does not really solve this...

I hear some people have this issue and some don't, considering everything look new and clean on my variator plates, belt and clutch side, I want to try to understand what really causes this ... can't be just bad OEM clutch shoes.

For now I'm thinking it maybe due to the way I and some others ride, and maybe to do with exessive heat, maybe going fast in hot Thailand weather for long, or even in traffic in hot wearher. One commom sign I have seen on the web aboit this in photos is the blue clutch bell that points to this.

I also see "smoothOperator" at the end of this thread below mentions the mechanic told him his problem was due to grooves on front variator plates:

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10520

I wish he would comment what happens with his repair...!?

I was also told this about my old small Suzuki years ago when it has this issue, but my current Forza has no groove and very smooth, almost new, variator plates...

My only option I'm looking at now is to get aftermarket shoes and bell, Malossi suggest their Delta clutch and bell are the best...! Of course...lol:

https://www.omniaracing.net/en/malossi- ... 40288.html

Read the description, it may help...!?

[easyrider]

The white stuff is corrosion.
Best to leave it in place as it prevents any further corrosion.

Correct!! Technical name is Aluminum oxide.. Forms when aluminum is in contact with moist air.. Once formed it protects the metal from further deterioration as stated above by Gn.
FYI..The biggest issue with this white powdery substance is with aluminum carburetors and the use of ethanol fuels that absorbs water.This water interacts with the aluminum to form this powdery substance. That white powdery substance fouls the tiny passages and jets. Requires cleaning and more maintenance especially when there is a lack of use ie storage situation. Mostly a problem in marine environments , small engines , generators and the like that uses carburetors.

[mymitzi]

Since servicing the clutch rendered a temporary solution. Replacing the bell and shoes should solve it longer term.

[gn2]

Replacing the bell and shoes should solve it longer term.

If scooter ridden the same way, it will probably return.
Need to do harder accelerations and not trickle along at low speed in traffic with clutch slipping.

[Austins]

Now I heard something from an old friend lived in a poor Latin country with his Chinese scooter and no parts availability , he said an old mechanic suggested a cheap solution to try on his bike, he put some very good quality heat resistant grease on the clutch shoes and inside bell housing, he said 1.5 year on and no stutter or jerky take off whatsoever, like a magic herbal remedy... ! lol, don't know, might worth a try... !?

[alx123]

grease on clutch shoes? doesn't sound right to me. I believe anything slippery on the clutch shoes will cause slipping problems. yeah you might lessen the stutter but at the same time lessen the clutch grip that will result in weaker acceleration and top end.

If you need help with getting the carbon clutch shoes and grooved clutch bell, let me know. I'll get from a shop where I got mine and send it to you in Phuket by post.

[alx123]

double post

[Austins]

grease on clutch shoes? doesn't sound right to me. I believe anything slippery on the clutch shoes will cause slipping problems. yeah you might lessen the stutter but at the same time lessen the clutch grip that will result in weaker acceleration and top end.

If you need help with getting the carbon clutch shoes and grooved clutch bell, let me know. I'll get from a shop where I got mine and send it to you in Phuket by post.

Thanks, I can buy from Lazada, is this below the grooved bell...!? I asked the seller and he said the manufacturer of this is Honda, so they manufacture two types of bells...!? The one on mine has no holes, but this one below does...., why Honda not put this on as default if better...!

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/forza ... 38106.html

[Austins]

I see your photos in the other thread the grooved bell from that guy, I think this one I sent also has some.... ! Zoom in and it has some as well as holes...

[alx123]

I didn't know Honda sell grooved bells and carbon clutch. But it doesn't matter OEM or not, as long as it works.

That clutch bell looks similar to what I'm using, except for the holes.

[Austins]

To be honest I don't think they are from Honda, they just put the label and the box behind to pretend, if you notice the part number is obscured. They also have exactly the same bell for Xmax with Yamaha box and label behind it...

But I guess it doesn't matter, I bet all these come from the same place as yours. It's a shame Honda didn't learn from these guys and short-changed us on this, I'm ordering mine and try - the grease solution doesn't sound reasonable to me either...

[Austins]

So finally with all the Covid-19 lockdown here in Phuket, I managed to go and change the clutch bell and clutch shoes to new grooved and carbon I bought from Lazada. I went to a repair shop opposite big Honda, and he did a very good job, cleaned and greased everything, spend a lot of time and charged me a very reasonable rate - Honda will never see me again...lol

He also said to change the shoes better also change 3 small graphite washers, they got them from Honda across the street, cost nothing, like 120 baht or US$4 for 3...

My old clutch shoes were now almost worn out completely (at 11.5k km ! ) and I noticed worn unevenly - which was not before, I think the uneven wearing maybe to do with sandpaper we did last time... !

I also used the opportunity to change my rollers to a bit lighter for maybe a bit more acceleration. I couldn't find a shop here that had the weight I wanted in stock (18g), and deliveries are slow these days. But I found out Xmax original rollers are exactly the same dimension as Forza but are 17 grams, as oppose to Forza 21g. So I went to Yamaha shop and bought 3 x 17g and mixed with 3 x 21g of mine - I thought 6x17g would be a bit too light...

So now my effective weight is 19g, so far it's okay, a bit higher RPM, maybe about 500rpm more at various speeds, need to ride more to get the feel for it, but it's not a big difference, and I didn't want a big difference, so it's okay...

Clutch is very smooth as well of course, but let's see how long that last...

[Inoplanetyanin]

Well, as I thought it was too good to be true, the stutter and judder at very low speed and on take off is back after 1500km trip, it was there even half way through, so just cleaning the clutch shoes with emery 80 sandpaper does not really solve this...

I had similar issues you describe.
It was resolved when I replaced the belt and the variator plates.
The parts were just worn...

[Austins]

Well, as I thought it was too good to be true, the stutter and judder at very low speed and on take off is back after 1500km trip, it was there even half way through, so just cleaning the clutch shoes with emery 80 sandpaper does not really solve this...

I had similar issues you describe.
It was resolved when I replaced the belt and the variator plates.
The parts were just worn...

Yes, if the variator plates are worn out that the gives this issue too, but if they are fine, then it's the clutch...