PCX150 - Vario150 Belt Swap

[Mel46]

I believe I read that there was a concern about belt differences between the new and old bike belts for both the belt length and width.
http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... elt#p79968

[waspmike]

More lack of information, than concern. Now Clemence has published the data at least on the width, we simply have to verify the length.

If the same it can only be good for everyone.

[Mel46]

http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... elt#p65772

Here was another discussion on the various numbers for the belts, and the concern as to whether there were differences.

[waspmike]

http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... elt#p65772

Here was another discussion on the various numbers for the belts, and the concern as to whether there were differences.

This seems to be a discussion between KWN-901 which is a PCX 125 V1 belt and the KZR-601 from the Click 125i which uses the PCX V1.125 engine. These belts are to all intents and purposes the same.

PCX 125/150 V2. KZY-701 belts are a tad longer.

[clemence]

To end all of the confusions I'll measure the lenght soon. But the problem is I don't have any accurate measuring tape for that. Will an indirect measurement using any flexible strings acceptable here? Or should I use the rolling method? The teeth makes measurement difficult

[Tonyx]

and we have belts In the USA....

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts ... belt-drive
http://www.procaliber.com/oemparts/p/ho ... belt-drive
http://parts.southernhonda.com/p/Honda_ ... _StockCode
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/det ... aQodK00AAA

surprisingly Amazon has the worst price
http://www.amazon.com/Honda-HONDA-23100 ... 00-K36-J01

FYI Amazon has referral service. TMSParts.com sells Honda OEM parts and priced competitively. This belt is $28.72 with $8.99 shipping in US. Another data point for consideration.

http://www.tmsparts.com/oem/honda/23100 ... gQodk4wCtQ

[waspmike]

To end all of the confusions I'll measure the lenght soon. But the problem is I don't have any accurate measuring tape for that. Will an indirect measurement using any flexible strings acceptable here? Or should I use the rolling method? The teeth makes measurement difficult

Mark a line on the belt with a ball point. Stick a piece of string onto the belt with tape. rotate the pulley or put the string all the way around. Keep it slightly tight. Cut with scissors on the line. Measure the string with a tape measure. +/- 1mm is fine. If in doubt measure the string three times do an average.

Do not use the end of the tape measure . measure from 100mm to 922 or whatever.

Likely it will be 822mm -ish.

If the belt is new you could do the same with masking tape then stick the masking tape on a desk and measure the tape.

[clemence]

Yup, it should be easy if you have the right tool. I had a good quality and durable measuring tape made from reinforced rubber with only approx. 0,5% error in 1 meter compared to my Mitutoyo vernier caliper. I used to use it for making two stoke exhaust pipe templates. Then my dog chewed it nicely, I couldn't even see the brand (-_-)
I have to borrow my neighbor's tape first. My metal measuring tape can't be trusted, when calibrated it gave extra 2mm within the first 15cm.

[waspmike]

My metal measuring tape can't be trusted, when calibrated it gave extra 2mm within the first 15cm.

Bought at pasar desa for 20,000 rupiah?

[clemence]

I did try to buy a new one
None were accurate enough to keep. They're OK for comparing but not if we need to measure something for international comparison.
No I didn't buy it, I just found it laying around in a project. That explains why the previous owner threw it

[clemence]

Ladies and Gentlemen...
I present you the complete and (hopefully) accurate enough the cogged Honda Vario/PCX 150 drive belt!

_3071120 by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
The letter/number-ing is: 23100-K36-J010-M1 HONDA BANDO

_3071123 by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
Measured: 22,1mm

_3151207_DxO by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
Measured: 11,2mm

_3151209_DxO by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
Measured: 823mm (give or take 1mm)

_3151208_DxO by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
Thanks to my carpenter neighbor, it's marks are very accurate. Tested up to 1meter using my Mitutoyo, very little error (less than 1mm).

[waspmike]

OK so

Previous belt 23100- KZY-701 details are : 822 x 21.6 x 30
New belt 23100- K36-J01 details are: 822 x 22.1 x 11.2

So the question is what and how does the thinner design benefit performance. Slightly wider I can see giving a minuscule advantage in speed but not sure about the thickness.

Could it be that the extra width pushes it slightly higher in the drive pulley (like a Malossi belt) and the lesser thickness lets it sit lower in the driven pulley. It is all very small differences but the devil is in the details.

Clemence/Homie will have to tell us what difference they experience.

It won't do any harm but just maybe...

[homie]

I would hope mine will be here this week (last I saw in customs). First to see if its the same measurements as Clem's. I'm going in to note wear on NCY vario kits in general at 4k. I have logged performance acceleration and top end speed at max tire inflation for my 2015 PCX but this won't mean anything to stock owners who don't fit the oversized tires. However the tachometer and (GPS) speedometer will show any changes in the new cogged belt for Honda PCX 125/150.

It should be noted these cogged belts have been available to auto industry for years for all the longevity and beneficial reasons advertised. If there are minute size differences on a belt in a variating two pulley system of any kind I'm betting we will see something change so I won't swap out anything but the belt even if there is degradation in the rollers or clutch.

[clemence]

I'm highly optimistic that this new belt with wider contact to the pulley would improve the stop and go traction while still maintain the flexibility. And mine is still not there, because almost half of the lower teeth side isn't mating to the drive pulley yet. It takes more kms to make it perfectly mated.

_3071129 by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
Note the shiny and rough surface marks.

_3071128 by Clemence Ronald, on Flickr
The middle arrow is the position of the nylon strings of the belt. The leftmost arrow is the lowest inner teeth position of the belt. I can still feel the fine CNC ridges of the the drive pulley. The rightmost arrow was 3mm from the side of the pulley. This was taken before DRP installed.

I was surprised when I removed the pulley today. After DRP installed, the clearance from pulley side was less than 1mm without any filing done to the pulley as I usually did before. The top speed is now exactly 120km/h (speedo), was 115-ish km/h (speedo). The rev limiter now kicks in at 130km/h on center stand.
So, with the already DRP optimized drive pulley (variator), the belt could stand out 1-2 mm above the drive pulley. Which is OK, just like many Yamaha scooter I've seen.

[homie]

Very cool pics and notes, I will take time to photograph the drive face action of the past on my stock belt on dis-assembly then perhaps after several miles on JUST the new cogged belt go back in and document the new contacts as well. I'll want to do this anyway if there is any wear on the entire NCY kit.

[clemence]

Note:
One member told me that I posted wrong measurement of the belt pulley. To clarify this, I used two flat ice cream paddles/sticks held in "vee" position to get that number. I measured the distance between the top of the belt and the intersections of the ice cream paddle. Then I locked the vernier caliper and positioned it over the belt, asked it to say "cheese....", and click! That made taking picture easier. I admit, those ice cream paddles were wrong ....
That's how I usually measure any v-belts because if I just clamp the vernier caliper directly (like perhaps, many viewer think I did with the picture) the soft edges would squeezed and resulted in reduced number.
It's a used belt with 1700+ kilometers anyway. Perhaps Homie should measure his new unused belt next time. I also notice how new variator with its CNC machining ridges wears the belt a bit faster than usual.

Thanks for pointing that critical detail. You're right, the result would be different otherwise.

@Homie: what is NCY?

[homie]

@Homie: what is NCY?

NCY Motor Sports of Taiwan, Ignore the 125cc reference on the packages, it doesn't matter and fits 150cc as well. Click away, I like the traffic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NRc9g3Dasw

[waspmike]

Walked to Honda today.

I thought the brive face boss might be longer by about 1 - 1.2mm to go with the thinner belt like adding a fuzzy washer, but it is not. However to to go with the new belt the E,F & G models have different variator pulley, different drive face pulley and different weights. In fact the latest G model has different weights to the E and F models.

I figured that anyone wishing to change the variator would rather get an aftermarket one so I didn't bother to compare those and likewise the weights being different also, as some of you have settled on 13g I didn't get any weights to compare.

They didn't have any drive faces in stock either but at $5.90 for two I ordered one of each the old and new to compare. They will be available for pickup tomorrow at 5pm.

[homie]

Walked to Honda today.

I wish I could walk to Honda, my belt is still in NewYork customs. Hey did you see the analysis of the existing vario kit after 4000 miles on my bike? Mike can you explain how this is possible, does it not lend to the theory that a wearing belt rides higher and higher on the face? Help me understand this because if a new belt slows me down I'm going to be convinced.

http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5791

[easyrider]

Only testing can tell for sure, but usually in a friction dominated system stiffness is essential in the management of excitations, oscillations ,or better known as strumming. This "strumming " effect can lead to more vibrations, noise ,and potential energy absorbing loss.Looking at the photos it would be hard to see the actual stiffness..so test away, but I really at this point see no advantages and perhaps may have potential for some more vibration in the driveline.I would think that this type of belt would be better suited for freezing environments where flexibility is impaired due to cold.