How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by jkautz »

Thanks Alibally. I really hope it's okay, it seems like there is so much variance in what can be put into these things. 10w30 10w40. MA or MB. I get confused lol
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by jkautz »

bump............
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by maddiedog »

Use 10w30 in the final drive.

It should be ok with 10w40, but Honda calls for 10w30.
Currently ride: 2011 Honda PCX 125 - Upgraded windshield and seat, keeping this one mostly stock
Previously rides: 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by maddiedog »

Mel -- I never change crush washers, and have never had a problem. They'll get worn and crack eventually, that's typically when I replace them. :)
Currently ride: 2011 Honda PCX 125 - Upgraded windshield and seat, keeping this one mostly stock
Previously rides: 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by maddiedog »

Since it was mentioned in a BUNCH of threads using 10w30 versus 10w40 for the final drive, I feel like this needs a better explanation...

10w30 --- this is an oil weight. In layman's terms, the 10 refers to cold thickness and the 30 refers to hot thickness. The higher the number, the thicker the oil. A w30 oil is thinner than a w40 oil when it gets hot. "Hot" can be defined as engine operational temperature, and "Cold" can be defined as turned off and left off overnight temperature. The specifications are exact, but you're not a mechanical engineer, so that should suffice. ;)

Your drivetrain never gets to "hot" temperature because there is no combustion in the final drive. That means functionally 10w30 is more or less the same as 10w40 in the drivetrain. You are fine using either. Honda calls for 10w30.

Personally, I'd use either in a pinch and never think twice about it. Since I have 10w30 anyways, and even if I didn't, since a quart of 10w30 synthetic is REALLY cheap, I'd just run what Honda calls for.
Currently ride: 2011 Honda PCX 125 - Upgraded windshield and seat, keeping this one mostly stock
Previously rides: 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by jkautz »

Thank you Maddiedog!
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

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maddiedog wrote:Since it was mentioned in a BUNCH of threads using 10w30 versus 10w40 for the final drive, I feel like this needs a better explanation...

10w30 --- this is an oil weight. In layman's terms, the 10 refers to cold thickness and the 30 refers to hot thickness. The higher the number, the thicker the oil. A w30 oil is thinner than a w40 oil when it gets hot. "Hot" can be defined as engine operational temperature, and "Cold" can be defined as turned off and left off overnight temperature. The specifications are exact, but you're not a mechanical engineer, so that should suffice. ;)

Your drivetrain never gets to "hot" temperature because there is no combustion in the final drive. That means functionally 10w30 is more or less the same as 10w40 in the drivetrain. You are fine using either. Honda calls for 10w30.

Personally, I'd use either in a pinch and never think twice about it. Since I have 10w30 anyways, and even if I didn't, since a quart of 10w30 synthetic is REALLY cheap, I'd just run what Honda calls for.
Totally agree. Thank fork someone will shut them up

Can I just say most oils mostly weigh the same despite the viscosity :D Or will this start the hares running again :D
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by you you »

maddiedog wrote:Mel -- I never change crush washers, and have never had a problem. They'll get worn and crack eventually, that's typically when I replace them. :)
Get a copper one and you can re anneal it indefinitely
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by maddiedog »

you you wrote:Can I just say most oils mostly weigh the same despite the viscosity :D Or will this start the hares running again :D
Might want to avoid that, I'd likely ramble about fluid density versus viscosity. :lol:
Currently ride: 2011 Honda PCX 125 - Upgraded windshield and seat, keeping this one mostly stock
Previously rides: 2005 V-Strom DL650, 1974 Vespa Ciao, 2011 Honda PCX 170 (tons of mods - takegawa 170cc big bore kit, gears, etc), 1996 Honda Nighthawk 250, 1987 Honda Spree, 2000 KTM 125SX, 2003 Honda Silverwing, 2007 Genuine Buddy 125, 1998 Honda PC800, 2008 Buddy 125 (white), 2008 Buddy 125 (red), 2001 Honda Reflex, 1987 Honda Elite, 1988 Honda Spree, 2007 Yamaha Vino, 2007 Honda Metro, 2x 125cc pure-chinesium dirt bikes
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by jkautz »

you you wrote:Totally agree. Thank fork someone will shut them up

This is why this forum is slow. Ppl trying to learn, and someone like you pops off. Because everyone should know what you know correct? You must live a sad life.
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by Bidlack78 »

4 oz 10w 30 Mobil 1 full synthetic.
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by Jge64 »

how simple...did it this morning in 5 min......I used 10w 40 syn as that's what I owned....a great syringe here you can use for topping off crank oil too....it allows you to get the crank level perfect.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G7 ... ge_o06_s00
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

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Jge64 wrote:how simple...did it this morning in 5 min......I used 10w 40 syn as that's what I syringe.a great syringe here you can use for topping off crank oil too....it allows you to get the crank level perfect.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G7 ... ge_o06_s00

Syringes and tubes are really useful for bikes and scooters for replacing fluids. A decent sized syringe and a shot length of tubing would make oilchanges a breeze
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by homie »

you you wrote:Syringes and tubes are really useful for bikes and scooters for replacing fluids. A decent sized syringe and a shot length of tubing would make oil changes a breeze
:lol: youyou avatar... you have no pants like me now! That's not a wing tip :D

I agree there probably nothing to see in the wire basket anyway... its not like its a filter.
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by iceman »

you you wrote:
Jge64 wrote:how simple...did it this morning in 5 min......I used 10w 40 syn as that's what I syringe.a great syringe here you can use for topping off crank oil too....it allows you to get the crank level perfect.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G7 ... ge_o06_s00
Syringes and tubes are really useful for bikes and scooters for replacing fluids. A decent sized syringe and a shot length of tubing would make oilchanges a breeze
Recently changed the main oil but not checked the final drive oil yet (it should be ok but just in case it's low) so just bought a 150ml syringe + plastic tube for £2.60 delivered Ebay (100ml is a little over £2 delivered). I've stopped using Amazon for lots of small things now as I don't want to keep adding to the basket just to take cheap things over £20 - so Ebay it is. Also, it seems some UK dealers, even bike outlets, that charge postage on Amazon give free postage for the same thing on Ebay (I found Ghostbikes (UK) did that so worth checking Ebay for the dealer if you find small items on Amazon and saving p/p).
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

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homie wrote:
you you wrote:Syringes and tubes are really useful for bikes and scooters for replacing fluids. A decent sized syringe and a shot length of tubing would make oil changes a breeze
:lol: youyou avatar... you have no pants like me now! That's not a wing tip :D

I agree there probably nothing to see in the wire basket anyway... its not like its a filter.


I'd be proud ofthat wingtip :lol:
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by Eiron »

maddiedog wrote:Since it was mentioned in a BUNCH of threads using 10w30 versus 10w40 for the final drive, I feel like this needs a better explanation...

10w30 --- this is an oil weight. In layman's terms, the 10 refers to cold thickness and the 30 refers to hot thickness. The higher the number, the thicker the oil. A w30 oil is thinner than a w40 oil when it gets hot. "Hot" can be defined as engine operational temperature, and "Cold" can be defined as turned off and left off overnight temperature. The specifications are exact, but you're not a mechanical engineer, so that should suffice. ;)

Your drivetrain never gets to "hot" temperature because there is no combustion in the final drive. That means functionally 10w30 is more or less the same as 10w40 in the drivetrain. You are fine using either. Honda calls for 10w30.

Personally, I'd use either in a pinch and never think twice about it. Since I have 10w30 anyways, and even if I didn't, since a quart of 10w30 synthetic is REALLY cheap, I'd just run what Honda calls for.
maddiedog probably already knows this, but the other characteristics to consider are viscosity retention & additive packages. Gears do an excellent job of shredding oil viscosity, & they do that under the extreme pressure action of gear teeth leveraging against one another. Gear oil contains extreme pressure anti-wear additives, but many motor oils do not. And SAE specs kinda tell you which oils have improved additive packages, but don't clearly tell you which ones have better viscosity retention. Euro oil specs do tell you this info, but many oil manufacturers don't list these specs ('cuz it costs more to run additional tests).

If you can find an oil you like with Euro ACEA oil specs, then look for those with A3/B3/B4 listings. These oils will have both better viscosity retention and better anti-wear additive packages. And these are the oils I'd recommend in both the transmission and the crankcase.
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

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Eiron wrote:
maddiedog wrote:Since it was mentioned in a BUNCH of threads using 10w30 versus 10w40 for the final drive, I feel like this needs a better explanation...

10w30 --- this is an oil weight. In layman's terms, the 10 refers to cold thickness and the 30 refers to hot thickness. The higher the number, the thicker the oil. A w30 oil is thinner than a w40 oil when it gets hot. "Hot" can be defined as engine operational temperature, and "Cold" can be defined as turned off and left off overnight temperature. The specifications are exact, but you're not a mechanical engineer, so that should suffice. ;)

Your drivetrain never gets to "hot" temperature because there is no combustion in the final drive. That means functionally 10w30 is more or less the same as 10w40 in the drivetrain. You are fine using either. Honda calls for 10w30.

Personally, I'd use either in a pinch and never think twice about it. Since I have 10w30 anyways, and even if I didn't, since a quart of 10w30 synthetic is REALLY cheap, I'd just run what Honda calls for.
maddiedog probably already knows this, but the other characteristics to consider are viscosity retention & additive packages. Gears do an excellent job of shredding oil viscosity, & they do that under the extreme pressure action of gear teeth leveraging against one another. Gear oil contains extreme pressure anti-wear additives, but many motor oils do not. And SAE specs kinda tell you which oils have improved additive packages, but don't clearly tell you which ones have better viscosity retention. Euro oil specs do tell you this info, but many oil manufacturers don't list these specs ('cuz it costs more to run additional tests).

If you can find an oil you like with Euro ACEA oil specs, then look for those with A3/B3/B4 listings. These oils will have both better viscosity retention and better anti-wear additive packages. And these are the oils I'd recommend in both the transmission and the crankcase.
There two teaspoons of oil in the final drive. And two bolts. An inny and an outty. It's about as nursery school mechanics as it gets. Have a go and change it if you want but please don't get all superhero about it..
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by Eiron »

you you wrote:There two teaspoons of oil in the final drive. And two bolts. An inny and an outty. It's about as nursery school mechanics as it gets. Have a go and change it if you want but please don't get all superhero about it..
Interesting.

I wasn't referencing the procedure of changing the trans oil.

I apologise if my comments were unclear in that regard, or if any "superhero" intent was erroneously conveyed.

I'm simply trying to share information with others who are concerned about increasing the longevity of their scoots. Obviously, we each have to use whichever products & procedures we're comfortable with.

Yes, I'm an oil geek. :geek: I had to become one when I cautiously performed testing protocols to extend my automobile oil change intervals to 2 yrs/20,000 miles.

Since you're not interested in improved engine & transmission protection, I'd suggest not reading my posts regarding that topic in the future. :)
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Re: How-To: Change Final Drive Oil

Post by sendler2112 »

Just changed my final drive oil in the PCX for the first time at 18,138 miles using some Mercedes diff oil I had handy. There was some grey swirl in the old oil.
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