Best vario

[you you]

Here is an idea, your heated grips belong in Accesories section of this forum as it a comfort add on and has nothing to do with performance of the scoot. So how about you go there and set up a blog. We would love to know where you bought it, how much you paid for it, what brand it is, how and who installed it, what difference makes it to ride with them, does it affect your battery life or mpg and so on.
Time to contribute something usefull to this community other than a useless constant unwanted chinwags...
Oh and as Valiant said, pics too or it didn't happen!

Ah..the slight whiff of humourless self importance...

[Mel46]

I have tried to follow the performance mods for quite awhile now and finally just chose the 13 gm rollers and called it a day. My takeoff is much better, though the top end is about the same. I plan on adding the ncy variator, but until i do, the rollers seem to do most of what i wanted. I think it all comes down to reading and comparing before pulling the trigger. Then just do it. The costs are not that much, so if you don't like the results, read, compare, try again. Just keep in mind that the engine is just a single cylinder that has less hp than many lawn mowers. I doubt that you will be able to make it into a Ninja, so just enjoy any improvements you can get. If someone comes up with a 196cc upgrade kit, THEN you will see some real improvements in the performance curve. I hope they do come up with a kit that works well. Until then i am happy with little improvements.

[you you]

I have tried to follow the performance mods for quite awhile now and finally just chose the 13 gm rollers and called it a day. My takeoff is much better, though the top end is about the same. I plan on adding the ncy variator, but until i do, the rollers seem to do most of what i wanted. I think it all comes down to reading and comparing before pulling the trigger. Then just do it. The costs are not that much, so if you don't like the results, read, compare, try again. Just keep in mind that the engine is just a single cylinder that has less hp than many lawn mowers. I doubt that you will be able to make it into a Ninja, so just enjoy any improvements you can get. If someone comes up with a 196cc upgrade kit, THEN you will see some real improvements in the performance curve. I hope they do come up with a kit that works well. Until then i am happy with little improvements.

Sensible words. Might try a NCY variator myself too but I woulnt expect waters to part

[Valiant]

I have tried to follow the performance mods for quite awhile now and finally just chose the 13 gm rollers and called it a day. My takeoff is much better, though the top end is about the same. I plan on adding the ncy variator, but until i do, the rollers seem to do most of what i wanted. I think it all comes down to reading and comparing before pulling the trigger. Then just do it. The costs are not that much, so if you don't like the results, read, compare, try again. Just keep in mind that the engine is just a single cylinder that has less hp than many lawn mowers. I doubt that you will be able to make it into a Ninja, so just enjoy any improvements you can get. If someone comes up with a 196cc upgrade kit, THEN you will see some real improvements in the performance curve. I hope they do come up with a kit that works well. Until then i am happy with little improvements.

Reggy from Yuminashi came up with a 196cc upgrade kit. It's just that version 1.0 is usually the most buggy, so you might as well wait for Honda to release the PCX 200 first.

[GeeGusKahn]

Hmm, sounds juicy.

I've been having issues regarding lag on takeoff from a standstill lately. Almost felt like a stock PCX with the lag. Swapped out the clutch, didn't help. The mechanic suggested a stiffer spring, which is a little confusing since I'm pulling at 8500-8800 rpms when it finally DOES pull. Figured I'd try it anyway.

Then Reggy tells me the Yuminashi Speed Control variator is designed to keep rpms down until about 30 kph(18-19 mph). Wasn't precisely my experience, as it would slowly crawl up to about 8-10 mph then suddenly the rpms go through the roof.

In any case, I was planning on trying the stiffer spring as suggested, and if that doesn't work, I'll toss in the Daytona variator with the sliders. Basically I want to do small changes and see if I can isolate the problem.

If it turns out that's the cause of the problem, then it would seem the new stuff is always the most buggy.

Ninja Edit:
Is the Daytona variator best used with the stock drive face? I bought the AdvancePro Drive Face, but it really doesn't mention a pairing variator that's supposed to go with it. I assume most of these variator only sets have identical diameter/angles to stock, and it's just the ramp curves and dimensions that are different, allowing the belt to be pushed out further.

Don't know anything about Daytona variator but I do have some of the other info.
Advance Pro drive face is 120 mm with ~14 degree slope.
PCX oem variator and drive plate are both 117 mm with ~ 15 degree slope.
NCY drive plate is ~ 117 mm with ~ 14 degree slope.
.
theory is that 14 degree slope will up the acceleration rate compared to 15 degree slope.
.

[Valiant]

I take it the Daytona wouldn't be the best to use with sliders given the Teflon coated interior?

I always only use sliders and no drama so far..

What's your top speed with this combo?

Daytona, tested and tried from multiple others. Also I'll be getting the latest Yuminashi vario hopefully soonish that's supposed to be a cracker. I'll let you know how it went.

Would that be the Speed Control or the Sprint Master?

Try a small washer to widen the gap between pulleys for better takeoff speed. Kn planing sells them in .3mm and .5mm sizes. It's the cheapest way to sort that out without loosing any top end...

I did buy those just in case, though if it widens the distance between the pulleys, wouldn't that result in a small dip in top end? I just figured that might be the case if the pulley is still further apart when they're pushed together. Might end up being neutral with sliders in any case.

Also curious if allowing the belt to drop down to the shaft on either pulley would result in belt slip or the "shuddering" I describe if the belt doesn't have enough slack? As I recall, some scooter tuners say belt on the shaft is actually ideal as far as the front pulley because that's your lowest gear and where you can build up rpms the quickest. I do recall sendler bringing up the belt slack issue before however, so I'm not sure if the PCX belt(and its aftermarket variants) would be too long because the manufacturer never intended for it to ride directly on the shaft between the pulleys.

[Pcxdemon]

I take it the Daytona wouldn't be the best to use with sliders given the Teflon coated interior?

I always only use sliders and no drama so far..

What's your top speed with this combo?
137kmh on the speedo. My speedo is 9% over optimistic though. Still the highest top speed from all other varios I tried although I haven't tried yuminashi yet..

Daytona, tested and tried from multiple others. Also I'll be getting the latest Yuminashi vario hopefully soonish that's supposed to be a cracker. I'll let you know how it went.

Would that be the Speed Control or the Sprint Master?
The latest '15 version..

Try a small washer to widen the gap between pulleys for better takeoff speed. Kn planing sells them in .3mm and .5mm sizes. It's the cheapest way to sort that out without loosing any top end...

I did buy those just in case, though if it widens the distance between the pulleys, wouldn't that result in a small dip in top end? I just figured that might be the case if the pulley is still further apart when they're pushed together. Might end up being neutral with sliders in any case.

Also curious if allowing the belt to drop down to the shaft on either pulley would result in belt slip or the "shuddering" I describe if the belt doesn't have enough slack? As I recall, some scooter tuners say belt on the shaft is actually ideal as far as the front pulley because that's your lowest gear and where you can build up rpms the quickest. I do recall sendler bringing up the belt slack issue before however, so I'm not sure if the PCX belt(and its aftermarket variants) would be too long because the manufacturer never intended for it to ride directly on the shaft between the pulleys.

Depends on the vario if it likes the washer or not. Usually it will not affect your top end and in some instances it increased it by several Kmh top end. Takeoff will definitely improve but you may loose or widen the midrange bit too much if you use too big washer so it's something you would need to experiment yourself. For me, using a washer for tuning a vario to be just right is a must.

[Valiant]

Alrighty then!


I had the Daytona variator & AdvancePro Drive Face installed with 12g Dr Pulley Sliders, 2x 0.5mm washers, Takegawa Center Spring(+11%), and the KN Planning Torque Driver.

The delay is all but eliminated. There's a definite rpm lag when going from a stop to WOT, but it's also pulling straight the entire time whereas before it would just shudder and creep forward a feet or two before it "engages" and pulls forward. This setup feels more linear and more responsive to throttle control.

I can't say for sure what caused the issue as I didn't have them install one piece, then try it, as I sat around there for 2-3 hours(total work wasn't long, but they were working on 5 different scooters at once). But I suspect it was the variator, as Reggy mentions it's designed to keep rpms low until about 30 mph. Doesn't make sense to me, as heavier weights could achieve the same effect without having to design a whole variator around that.

Stand speed is 86 mph at 9600 rpms, so a definite bump up in the gearing. I haven't taken it on the freeway yet, so I don't know what the pulling rpms are at, or how the top speed will be affected. I know that city riding only requires about 10-15% throttle to maintain a 35-40 mph speed.

I'm happy with the results thus far, I'll see what the freeway speeds are at tomorrow, and if I need to order lighter sliders.

[Pcxdemon]

Alrighty then!


I had the Daytona variator & AdvancePro Drive Face installed with 12g Dr Pulley Sliders, 2x 0.5mm washers, Takegawa Center Spring(+11%), and the KN Planning Torque Driver.

The delay is all but eliminated. There's a definite rpm lag when going from a stop to WOT, but it's also pulling straight the entire time whereas before it would just shudder and creep forward a feet or two before it "engages" and pulls forward. This setup feels more linear and more responsive to throttle control.

I can't say for sure what caused the issue as I didn't have them install one piece, then try it, as I sat around there for 2-3 hours(total work wasn't long, but they were working on 5 different scooters at once). But I suspect it was the variator, as Reggy mentions it's designed to keep rpms low until about 30 mph. Doesn't make sense to me, as heavier weights could achieve the same effect without having to design a whole variator around that.

Stand speed is 86 mph at 9600 rpms, so a definite bump up in the gearing. I haven't taken it on the freeway yet, so I don't know what the pulling rpms are at, or how the top speed will be affected. I know that city riding only requires about 10-15% throttle to maintain a 35-40 mph speed.

I'm happy with the results thus far, I'll see what the freeway speeds are at tomorrow, and if I need to order lighter sliders.

Is there a reason you went two .5mm washers together? I would of started from .3mm and worked my way up slowly while giving the each set up couple of days to test it out and get the feel on the road. Subtle differences but when you hit the right spot you will know it's the best..

[Valiant]

Not having the tools, or even an area to plug in any tools, it would cost me $50 each time to pop open the trans and swap something out.

I figure one potential downside was that the top end goes down, so I stuck in the KN Planning torque driver to counteract that by extending the gearing some more. Even if the belt itself isn't all the way out on the front, she's still pulling 86 on the stand at 9600 rpms.

[you you]

Alrighty then!


I had the Daytona variator & AdvancePro Drive Face installed with 12g Dr Pulley Sliders, 2x 0.5mm washers, Takegawa Center Spring(+11%), and the KN Planning Torque Driver.

The delay is all but eliminated. There's a definite rpm lag when going from a stop to WOT, but it's also pulling straight the entire time whereas before it would just shudder and creep forward a feet or two before it "engages" and pulls forward. This setup feels more linear and more responsive to throttle control.

I can't say for sure what caused the issue as I didn't have them install one piece, then try it, as I sat around there for 2-3 hours(total work wasn't long, but they were working on 5 different scooters at once). But I suspect it was the variator, as Reggy mentions it's designed to keep rpms low until about 30 mph. Doesn't make sense to me, as heavier weights could achieve the same effect without having to design a whole variator around that.

Stand speed is 86 mph at 9600 rpms, so a definite bump up in the gearing. I haven't taken it on the freeway yet, so I don't know what the pulling rpms are at, or how the top speed will be affected. I know that city riding only requires about 10-15% throttle to maintain a 35-40 mph speed.

I'm happy with the results thus far, I'll see what the freeway speeds are at tomorrow, and if I need to order lighter sliders.

Is there a reason you went two .5mm washers together? I would of started from .3mm and worked my way up slowly while giving the each set up couple of days to test it out and get the feel on the road. Subtle differences but when you hit the right spot you will know it's the best..

Hilarious

[Valiant]

Okay, so my first go on the freeway today got me some results:
-Pulling rpms went down from 8800 to about 7700, so I'll probably have to go with 10g sliders(currently 12g).
-Acceleration at city speeds seemed largely unaffected, likely because the lag isn't there anymore.
-Acceleration at 55+ mph went down.
-Uphill climbing went from 60 mph on the speedo up to 61-62 mph, which is pretty interesting.

Traffic was pretty heavy, with the cars in the left lane cruising at about 60 mph(GPS), so I didn't get to go much faster than that.

[Pcxdemon]

Okay, so my first go on the freeway today got me some results:
-Pulling rpms went down from 8800 to about 7700, so I'll probably have to go with 10g sliders(currently 12g).
-Acceleration at city speeds seemed largely unaffected, likely because the lag isn't there anymore.
-Acceleration at 55+ mph went down.
-Uphill climbing went from 60 mph on the speedo up to 61-62 mph, which is pretty interesting.

Traffic was pretty heavy, with the cars in the left lane cruising at about 60 mph(GPS), so I didn't get to go much faster than that.

Just reduce it to one washer .5mm and see how you go...

[Valiant]

Just reduce it to one washer .5mm and see how you go...

Again, not in the best position to be repeatedly swapping out single parts for fine tuning.

Shudder came back again, but not quite as bad. Seems like it's worse if I: A) Creep open the throttle and B) Whack the throttle all the way open. Middle throttle position seems best.

My second run on the highway today got me 65 mph to my campus(uphill) and 73 mph(short downhill) on the way back. It wasn't 65 mph "uphill", that's usually about 55-56 mph on the GPS, just that my campus is uphill from where I started. I would say that overall I didn't lose any real road speed and probably gained 1-2 mph. Fuel economy went from 73-75 mpg to 80 mpg.

I could probably gain more speed and acceleration with lighter sliders, and would expect considerable gains in both areas once I get my air intake issues sorted out.

[Mel46]

http://enviromoto.ecrater.com/c/1610768/transmission

For anyone interested, today i came across a website that sells the ncy variator and other ncy items cheaper than I have seen any where else. Here is the link. I don't know if it has been discussed previously, so if it has, just ignore this.

[Valiant]

If you haven't personally purchased from them, I would advise against pointing anyone to them. I've already been burned once by a site that claimed to sell NCY parts, but never delivered(or responded to me) when I paid them.

[Valiant]

I take it the Daytona wouldn't be the best to use with sliders given the Teflon coated interior?

I always only use sliders and no drama so far..

Okay, was this with both the Daytona vario and the sliders brand new?

My PCX was running fine after I put the 12g sliders back in for about a week. Now it's got the same issue where the speed gets stuck at 60 mph and only revs up beyond that point.

I did note however that there was a considerable amount of the black teflon coating cooked onto the 10g sliders in the 1-2 days I was running with them:


I'm thinking there's enough of the coating accumulated onto the 12g sliders to cause the sliders to stop sliding out, thus causing my issue with the pulleys not upshifting.

That, or the friction in that area is causing my sliders to misalign(because the bottom is dragging while the top isn't).