PCX for dedicated high mileage commuter.

[Lee.R]

Hello Forum,

A little history before I begin with questions.

I am a motorcycle commuter for many years, age 35. I grew up on 2 wheels on an island learning with 50cc Honda Express mopeds then dirtbikes and on to streetbikes. I currently commute on a Triumph Tiger 1050 at @ 20,000 miles per year. This mileage is about to take a jump to 24000 miles per year with a move to Utah and a new job. I perform all maintenance myself on my bikes and have no issue with all routine items including valve adjustments. My Tiger is 2 years old with 44,000 miles and counting.

I'm here because I would like to get an additional bike with the exact purpose of covering a 100 mile round trip commute 5 days per week 48 weeks per year. (I exclude some ice/snow days) I have a backup Jeep Wrangler for extreme weather. I ride all days except when Ice or Snow is present on the roadway, cold is not a factor. (I'm from Maine originally, currently in Maryland)

What I would like to know is would a PCX 150 or Honda Forza handle this job? I am attracted to the MPG/Storage/Wind protection of the scooter platform. I don't need massive power, just enough to maintain the speed limit or 5 above which is what I would typically commute at. The max speed limit is 65mph for a 15 mile portion of the commute, the bulk is at 55mph or below with one mountain pass to get through. The inclines are nothing severe however. I'm build like a Yeti and 275 pounds. I literally look like Sasquatch. I would also like to run a heated jacket if the stator can handle it, otherwise I'll go for battery powered options.

I'm very interested in real world maintenance logs. Tire mileage, tire cost, oil change cost, brake pad cost, belt cost per year. If anyone has that information or tracks it I would love to have that. The Tiger is a somewhat expensive bike to maintain mostly due to low mpg. It has however been very reliable with 200 dollars in parts needed if 44,000 miles outside the routine items of oil, chains, brake pads, tires.

Any help would be VERY appreciated, as well as advice. I'm not a die-hard motorcycle guy, just a die-hard rider on two wheels.

Thank's for your help!

Lee

[you you]

Hello Forum,

A little history before I begin with questions.

I am a motorcycle commuter for many years, age 35. I grew up on 2 wheels on an island learning with 50cc Honda Express mopeds then dirtbikes and on to streetbikes. I currently commute on a Triumph Tiger 1050 at @ 20,000 miles per year. This mileage is about to take a jump to 24000 miles per year with a move to Utah and a new job. I perform all maintenance myself on my bikes and have no issue with all routine items including valve adjustments. My Tiger is 2 years old with 44,000 miles and counting.

I'm here because I would like to get an additional bike with the exact purpose of covering a 100 mile round trip commute 5 days per week 48 weeks per year. (I exclude some ice/snow days) I have a backup Jeep Wrangler for extreme weather. I ride all days except when Ice or Snow is present on the roadway, cold is not a factor. (I'm from Maine originally, currently in Maryland)

What I would like to know is would a PCX 150 or Honda Forza handle this job? I am attracted to the MPG/Storage/Wind protection of the scooter platform. I don't need massive power, just enough to maintain the speed limit or 5 above which is what I would typically commute at. The max speed limit is 65mph for a 15 mile portion of the commute, the bulk is at 55mph or below with one mountain pass to get through. The inclines are nothing severe however. I'm build like a Yeti and 275 pounds. I literally look like Sasquatch. I would also like to run a heated jacket if the stator can handle it, otherwise I'll go for battery powered options.

I'm very interested in real world maintenance logs. Tire mileage, tire cost, oil change cost, brake pad cost, belt cost per year. If anyone has that information or tracks it I would love to have that. The Tiger is a somewhat expensive bike to maintain mostly due to low mpg. It has however been very reliable with 200 dollars in parts needed if 44,000 miles outside the routine items of oil, chains, brake pads, tires.

Any help would be VERY appreciated, as well as advice. I'm not a die-hard motorcycle guy, just a die-hard rider on two wheels.

Thank's for your help!

Lee

I would give it a go. GN2 would be better able to comment as I think he did something like your daily mileage.

Although he'll probably recommend a Forza

Only thing I can think of is that it'll probably make for a longer journey time than the tiger

[Mel46]

I do not own a Forza, just a PCX 150. However, given your size I believe that the Forza OR Silverwing would work well for you. I have a Burgman 400 and love it, but I am assuming that you would prefer a Honda product. Considering that the Burgman has been around for quite awhile, as well as the Silverwing, you will be able to get accessories and parts quicker and cheaper than on a Forza, since this is its first year out. Also, since weather changes make for a challenging ride, getting a tall windshield would help. You can order one if you buy the new Forza but it may take awhile. The dealer in our area said that they have not been given a list of accessories for the Forza yet, but we have all seen the advertisement in which the taller windshield was offered as an option at a very inflated price ($300 or wait for Givi to sell them for $100). If you want to go the scooter route I think your size will be a factor that will lead you to one of the larger scooters....300 to 650cc range. The Silverwing is a 600 cc scooter, while Burgman has a touring scooter that is 650cc. My Burgman 400 is ideal for local travel, and I do take it on daily 200 mile runs, but any ride longer than that should be done in comfort, and that is what the Burgman 650 is all about. Now Maddiedog had a Silverwing that he rode all the way from Atlanta to Daytona and back, so he is qualified enough to tell you if it is comfortable, though he does not weight anything close to your 275 lbs.

[gn2]

Well, the first thing to take into account is that the PCX will not do 65, so you're looking at a Forza or Kymco Downtown as a minimum.
Ideally you would probably want a 400 for that type of mileage.

[CaptnJim]

Our PCX 150s will do 65... BUT, my take is: the bike feels real "busy" above 55 mph. With a 100 mile 'round trip daily, I would prefer something that feels more relaxed at constant highway speeds. That said, I really like my PCX... you just want the best tool for the job, and for your situation, I really believe bigger would be better.

I have no hands-on experience with maxi-scoots, but that's where I'd start a search for what you need.

Captain Jim

[sendler2112]

It seems the PCX150 would be at the edge of it's capabilities for your size, weight, and desired speed. If you had a 7% climb anywhere on the route, you would be topped out at 45 mph or a little less. Honda is the leader by far in fuel economy right now. The Forza would be nice if you can change the seat for more leg room. You won't fit well on the Kymco Downtown either. Automatics are nice if you are in stop and go traffic. My belt is holding up fine after 8,000 miles. Tires will be about the same as any moto. A Burgman or a Majesty would also be really nice but won't match the FE of the Hondas coming in at just under 60 mpgUS.
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http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/suzuki/burgman%20400
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http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/yamaha/majesty
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Since you are a seasoned motorcycle rider, you may also want to consider one of the new Honda 700's or 500's which are very good on gas. Any of these bikes will break 70 mpgUS on a commute but don't have as much fairing as the Forza. Given your size, I would recommend that you test ride a Honda CTX700 before you decide. It has a low seat height to get you out of the wind but has so much leg room to the forward controls that people under 5'6 cannot ride it. It is a lot of bike for a big man that still gets 70 mpg due to it's long stroke fuel economy engine. ABS adds $1000 and only comes packaged with the dual clutch auto trans. The fair'ed model adds another grand so now it is getting expensive. A bigger windscreen can be added or DIYed as could some home made lowers/ running boards. The NC700 is the tall riding standard bike version as is the CB500X. A custom seat to let you slide back would allow a lie on a tank bag position on the CBR500R and make you a dart throught the cold wind if you are into that as I am on my CBR250R which gives me 95 mph top speed and 90 mpgUS at 65 mph.
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I run full heated gear from head to toe on All my bikes with no problems as it is so effective I rarely turn it up pas 50%.

[Mel46]

I think everything will depend on your size and driving habits. My Burgman 400 gets an average of 65 mpg, but mine is a 2006 which has a smaller cc engine than the 2007 and above, which was bumped up from 383 cc to a full 400 cc. Still, I am not as heavy as you are either, and most of my riding is outside of the city. So once again, your mpg will depend on your size and driving habits.

[gokidd]

Depending on where you're headed in Utah, this could be a very cold winter commute.
The PCX is not suited for what you're facing -- not enough power.
I've not ridden the Forza, but it is a 300cc scooter.
If you're used to a Tiger and need a commuting bike with Interstate speed, wind protection and enough electricity for heated garments, I would think you'd want a larger displacement bike. If I were your size and willing to do all the maintenance work, I would consider a used BMW 1100 or so.

[sendler2112]

used BMW 1100 or so.

35 mpg. Might as well take the car.

[scisor34]

I love my PCX and have put 15,000 miles on it in just over a year, but for what you've described I'd look into a Yamaha Majesty. It's MUCH more powerful than the Forza, absolutely bulletproof, and are readily available for $5,999 new. You'll enjoy how spacious it is compared to the cramped feeling Forza.

[you you]

used BMW 1100 or so.

35 mpg. Might as well take the car.

Yep. Mine is low 40s

[Darth Emma]

Have you considered the Honda CTX700ND? It's an automatic bike and gets 70 mpg. It's downside is that it's a bit more expensive than the scooters. The non-auto version is (CTX700N) starts at $6999, the autos (CTX700ND) starts at $7999. I got mine for $7300 (plus tax, title, and destination charges). There is also a fairing version (CTX700) to block wind, but it's considerably more expensive.

I have since traded it in for a Forza because I am a novice rider and the CTX was a bit too big for me. But, it sounds like it might suit your needs. The down side of the CTX is that it has very little storage space, but you can put a rack on the back.

I love my Forza. It will go 85+ mph and gets 70 mpg and has lots of storage. I read somewhere that it can handle up to 380ish lbs (it can handle 2 up). I am not sure the charging system will handle heated jacket. I think it's meant to charge phones and gps units.

Good luck with your decision.

[Lee.R]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Looks like the PCX would be underpowered for the job. I don't have any highway on the commute and won't use the scooter for recreation (I have the Tiger). I'm basically looking for "just enough" bike for the job with the maximum fuel economy and minimal maintenance as well as the lower cost of parts in general for small cc bikes.

The Burgman 400 and Majesty are very nice scooters. I've ridden a friends Burgman 650 and it's a nice bike, but gets pretty horrible gas mileage IMO. I've owned the KLR650 and a DL650 Vstrom in the past so honestly for the same price I would just add luggage to one of those. I'm really after the lower priced bikes, say sub 5000 dollars. A used one would be an option too.

The CBR 250, 500, Ninja 300 and similar are on the radar. The NC700x is as well if I could find a decent deal on one, it lacks wind protection however and that really helps on those days when it's 10 degrees out. The CBR 250 fits me really well go figure. The 500 even better. I do weigh a lot but I would not look as fat as you think in person, most guess my weight at 220 pounds if that gives you a mental image. I'm a "square" body type, no big gut at all just really wide shoulders and the rest of my chest/stomach is the same. I'm 5' 11" with 32" inseam so most things fit me well. I've not really had much issue with weight killing top speed just acceleration and hills. The real issue with the CBR's is luggage. I have a full set on the Tiger including top box and it holds a fair amount of stuff. The CBR 250 would be great with some Givi side cases but I don't see any made for it.

I'm not brand loyal so KYMCO, SYM etc are also options and I'm above average skill with mechanical and electrical maintenance/repairs so I'm not worried about lack of dealerships as I don't go to them anyway.

As for winter's, like a said cold isn't a factor, snow and ice is. I've spent one winter out there so I know what I'm looking at. It's better than Maine in that respect where I commuted year round.. I have a Jeep for the days when it's actually out of limits for the bike (snow/ice on road). I use heated gear in the winter and as long as the bike can run it I'm happy.

I guess I need to run number's on the Forza vs a CBR 250/500 and weight the pro's and con's.

What do scooter's usually die at for mileage? The Triumph is at 44000 with only a bad stator and hose both fixed for under 200 dollars.

[scisor34]

I'd go with a used Majesty. I work in the motorcycle industry and have 2 customers that have put over 100,000 miles on their bikes with zero issues.

[sendler2112]

My DIY plank style luggage system for the CBR250R.
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And the larger plank for when I am out of town camping
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Fits on my Ninja250 also.
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[gn2]

I'm basically looking for "just enough" bike for the job with the maximum fuel economy and minimal maintenance as well as the lower cost of parts in general for small cc bikes.

Any decent 250+ maxi-scooter will do the job

The Burgman 400 and Majesty are very nice scooters. I've ridden a friends Burgman 650 and it's a nice bike, but gets pretty horrible gas mileage IMO.

The 400 Burger is a very different proposition, ridden (very) carefully a post-2007 model can just about match a Forza on fuel economy.

I've owned the KLR650 and a DL650 Vstrom in the past so honestly for the same price I would just add luggage to one of those. I'm really after the lower priced bikes, say sub 5000 dollars. A used one would be an option too.

Why get a used bike when you can have a new scooter?
Scooter is so much better for commuting and you only really understand this fully once you've done it for real
I've had all sorts of bikes in the past, these days I only consider them to be toys whereas a maxi-scooter is serious practical transport.

I'm 5' 11" with 32" inseam so most things fit me well.

I'm similar and the Forza fits perfectly, but I never ride feet forward.

The real issue with the CBR's is luggage.

My helmet, jacket, trousers (with armour and winter linings) and gloves fit under the seat of the Forza, no need for even a topbox.
Burgman and Majesty 400 have even more space inside.

The CBR 250 would be great with some Givi side cases but I don't see any made for it.

AFAIK there aren't any hard side case options specifically made for the CBR 250, you would need to have something fabricated or use soft cases.

I'm not brand loyal so KYMCO, SYM etc are also options and I'm above average skill with mechanical and electrical maintenance/repairs so I'm not worried about lack of dealerships as I don't go to them anyway.

This opens up some cheap used opportunities, Sym Citycom and RV, Kymco Downtown and Xciting

As for winter's, like a said cold isn't a factor, snow and ice is.

Piaggio MP3, Gilera Fuoco...?

I guess I need to run number's on the Forza vs a CBR 250/500 and weight the pro's and con's.

Forza:
Pros: Its a scooter, its comfortable, no vibration to speak of, on-board storage, 8,000 mile service (oil & filter change) interval, 16,000 mile valve clearance check interval and drive belt life
Basically you just ride it and leave the tools in the box till 16,000 miles.
Cons: None

CBR 250:
Pros: None
Cons: Fugly, vibrates like fuck, chain drive (needs constant maintenance), no centrestand, uncomfortable

Yes I am biased and don't make any apology for it

What do scooter's usually die at for mileage?

Maintaned properly (as in not fucked around with) by and large they just don't.
But personally I wouldn't risk buying Italian....

[scisor34]

At 5' 11" you will feel cramped on the Forza, that's a fact, unless u don't mind ur knees hitting the handle bars at full lock. Go to ur local dealership and sit on the Forza while it's on it's center stand.

[gregalman]

I commute 43 miles each way on my PCX 125. But I work a week long shift so only commute once a week.
On surface streets in San fernando Valley and Los Angeles I have never felt the need for more power. The little scooter easily outpaces traffic where speeds are under 55 mph. I work the bike hard and still get 98 and 99 mpg. I can't speak to maintenance costs since with 3000 miles on it the bike has been flawless and the only maintenance has been oil changes.

I have taken the freeways a few times and although the scoot can do it fine, I don't enjoy the ride much.

As much as I love the little 125 I have to say that if I had to do the ride every day I would likely be looking at bigger scoot and freeway use to shorten the time.

[gn2]

At 5' 11" you will feel cramped on the Forza, that's a fact

No its not, its your opinion.

I have done 1,500 miles on my Forza, am six feet tall with a 32" inseam and have never once felt cramped in any way.

I'm interested to know how much time you think anyone would spend on full lock with both feet up in the course of a 50 mile commute...?

[scisor34]

One second of my knees getting anywhere near the handlebars is too much. I'm 5'10" with 31" inseam and my wrists hit my knees on the Forza. It's my opinion, but it's a fact.