Warranty "service requirements" in the UK?

[gn2]

I would love to see that argument LOL.. I however do not see where in the language that motorcycles are excluded

Here's the unsuccesful attempt to include motorcycles:
https://tinyurl.com/y9gfks6l


Definition of a motor vehicle is in section 4.2.1 on Page 16 of this .pdf
https://tinyurl.com/y84d9k2r

For the purposes of this Regulation:
"‘Motor vehicle’ means a self propelled vehicle intended for use on public roads and having three or more road wheels."

[easyrider]

That has to do with European Union and the sell and distribution of parts and servicing cars across borders..The BER does not exclude the motorcycle industry specifically. The conclusion you submitted was an attempt to include specifically motorcycles in the language.The commission felt it was unnecessary.The" other industry" language would suffice to cover the motorcycles industry .
Interesting that a trike is considered a motor vehicle but a scooter or motorcycle is not.Once again Logic does not prevail here..I would think a court would rectify that in short order.Be it as it may Honda would lose in a court of peers over who could do and not do oil changes.Ridiculous !!!

[Mister Paul]

Refers to cars, therefore of no consequence to the discussion because the law for cars is different.

No, it doesn't. You're taking the lost in translation and misrepresenting it. This is Honda motorcycles UK I've been talking to. She talks about motorcycles.

Thile confirmation is there, the case is tested. I think you're clutching at straws.

[gn2]

Paul, the text in your post specifically says "cars", any verbal communications you may have had with an employee of Honda UK are irrelevant if what is said isn't backed up in writing.

Easyrider, the legislation which provides retained warranty for indy servicing for cars is the MVBER*
Motorcycles are excluded from the MVBER (because with only two wheels they are outwith the definition of a motor vehicle) and instead fall under the scope of the General BER.

* Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulations http://ec.mvber.eu/regulation-eu-no-4612010/

[easyrider]

Still show me where the motorcycle is excluded specifically from other industries. So then, one just has to add a side car to qualify to do his own work and protect his warranty.. Bolderdash.. Not going to fly in any reasonable court and HONDA knows that..

[you you]

Can't help thinking that this thread is GN2 bait and he is rising to it.

[gn2]

Maybe it is and maybe I'm just extracting a weird pleasure from keeping it going.

In the great scheme of things it really doesn't matter.

[gn2]

Oh and two isnt three, and six still isn't nine.

[you you]

and six still isn't nine.

That depends on your viewpoint.

[Mister Paul]

Paul, the text in your post specifically says "cars", any verbal communications you may have had with an employee of Honda UK are irrelevant if what is said isn't backed up in writing.

Easyrider, the legislation which provides retained warranty for indy servicing for cars is the MVBER*
Motorcycles are excluded from the MVBER (because with only two wheels they are outwith the definition of a motor vehicle) and instead fall under the scope of the General BER.

* Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulations http://ec.mvber.eu/regulation-eu-no-4612010/

The text specifically says motorcycles. What do you have to say about that bit, which you seem to have missed before?

I'm calling troll.

[gn2]

The text specifically says motorcycles. What do you have to say about that bit, which you seem to have missed before?

Here's the text from your post:

Thank you for the reply.

We do not have any established terms and conditions or rules saying that if you service your car with an independent dealer this will mandatory void your warranty.

We do not oblige our customers to service their cars at Honda dealers, but defanetely we recommend this, because as mentioned in my previous e-mail we can guarantee only for Honda dealers that they follow specific procedures established by Honda and use only Honda genuine parts in order to ensure that the motorcycle will continue working properly and no issues will arise in the future. Hence in case if the car develops an issue due to a non proper servicing of the motorcycle this will void the warranty.

Thank you for contacting Honda. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,

Ivaneta Uzunova

So going back to what I said before, I was correct, the text clearly mentions cars.
Cars get three mentions, motorcycles only two.
Therefore to me it seems Ivaneta may be somewhat confused.
Also, the text does not state that a motorcycle warranty will remain valid if independent servicing is used.
No mention of what post Ivaneta holds within Honda UK either?

[easyrider]

Also, the text does not state that a motorcycle warranty will remain valid if independent servicing is used.

Nor does the BER say it won't ??? Choose your definition , but it doesn't matter.

Definition of a Motor Vehicle
The term 'motor vehicle' is defined in section 185(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and section 136(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads"

The scare tactics the motorcycle dealers want to use to keep your business will not work in a court of law. Honda clearly wants to compete with Suzuki and others and broaden their policy in allowing customers to use their own servicing providing they don't muck it up.. and they keep the required proof. The bottom line will be if its a factory defect ,or caused by the owner. Any legal challenge HONDA will undoubtedly relent.. Simply not cost effective to battle small potatoes only in the end to get bad publicity and unnecessary costs to boot. You can stay in the weeds and argue the dealer's position but HONDA will look at the big picture..

[gn2]

Definition of a Motor Vehicle
The term 'motor vehicle' is defined in section 185(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and section 136(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads"

The definition contained in the RTRA 1984 is irrelevant to the MVBER.
Different legislation, different definitions.

[gn2]

The scare tactics the motorcycle dealers want to use to keep your business will not work in a court of law. Honda clearly wants to compete with Suzuki and others and broaden their policy in allowing customers to use their own servicing providing they don't muck it up.. and they keep the required proof. The bottom line will be if its a factory defect ,or caused by the owner. Any legal challenge HONDA will undoubtedly relent.. Simply not cost effective to battle small potatoes only in the end to get bad publicity and unnecessary costs to boot. You can stay in the weeds and argue the dealer's position but HONDA will look at the big picture..

I'm not arguing the dealer's position, I'm simply pointing out the consumer's position is that there is no legal basis from which to insist on a warranty claim on a motorcycle when the servicing has been done by an independent rather than a franchised dealer.

The amount of cost difference between franchised dealer and an independent in most of the UK is pretty negligible.
The cost of a court case would be substantial, prohibitive even except to to those with the very deepest of pockets, who likely would have used a franchised dealer anyway because they can afford it...

[Mister Paul]

The scare tactics the motorcycle dealers want to use to keep your business will not work in a court of law. Honda clearly wants to compete with Suzuki and others and broaden their policy in allowing customers to use their own servicing providing they don't muck it up.. and they keep the required proof. The bottom line will be if its a factory defect ,or caused by the owner. Any legal challenge HONDA will undoubtedly relent.. Simply not cost effective to battle small potatoes only in the end to get bad publicity and unnecessary costs to boot. You can stay in the weeds and argue the dealer's position but HONDA will look at the big picture..

I'm not arguing the dealer's position, I'm simply pointing out the consumer's position is that there is no legal basis from which to insist on a warranty claim on a motorcycle when the servicing has been done by an independent rather than a franchised dealer.

The amount of cost difference between franchised dealer and an independent in most of the UK is pretty negligible.
The cost of a court case would be substantial, prohibitive even except to to those with the very deepest of pockets, who likely would have used a franchised dealer anyway because they can afford it...

No. You claimed that to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim you have to use Honda for servicing. That' has been demonstrated to be untrue, no matter how much you repeat yourself about legislation that applies to you motor vehicles.

[gn2]

No. You claimed that to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim you have to use Honda for servicing.

And I stand by that claim.
You haven't produced any valid proof to the contrary.

[easyrider]

You keep playing that record over and over again.. There is nothing definitive that outside service will void any warranty on a motor cycle or any industry or endeavor where competition would help the consumer.Simply not true! Mister Paul is correct in his analysis and confirmed by his verbal contact with HONDA directly. We can keep going on with this . but its just not there .. May not be cheaper to use an outside source for service but may be more convenient , faster , closer, or even performed at home note keeping receipts. Once again...the bottom line will be the nature of the defect.. and whether it is a factory defect or is an owner created issue. The rest is all insignificant as detailed in prior discussion.You have an interpretation that you hold to , but do some soul searching and ask yourself is it a logical and rational opinion based on the intent of the regulation. Why would a trike not void a warranty , but a motorcycle would especially when the English version states clearly that a motorcycle is in fact a motor vehicle by definition in law albeit may not coincide with European Common Market version. As previously stated it is my position for the sake of debate that I personally would not have any fears of voiding a warranty when it comes to using another qualified form of service not related to the dealership or network of the manufacturer. Everyone should govern themselves accordingly..
FYI..In the US there is no problem so I really am not a player in this , however the discussion was interesting and hopefully helpful to those that are interested and may be affected.

[Mister Paul]

No. You claimed that to stand any chance of a successful warranty claim you have to use Honda for servicing.

And I stand by that claim.
You haven't produced any valid proof to the contrary.

See.above. It's possible to go outside Honda serving and not void your warranty. You've had the proof.

As I said...

[gn2]

Like you say, you're in the USA so it doesn't affect you.
It won't affect anyone in the UK sensible enough to use a franchised dealer for servicing either.

[gn2]

You've had the proof.

This is what the correspondence you quoted says will void the warranty: "develops an issue due to a non proper servicing"

Use of a franchised dealer is unarguably part of "proper servicing", using an independent it falls to the motorcycle owner to demonstrate that "proper servicing" has been carried out.
Honda can easily decide that the owner has failed to show this adequately and void the warranty.
Honda are legally able to do so.
Owner is then in the position of having to fight Honda who have the legislation on their side.
There's only ever going to be one winner in that scenario.

Doesn't affect me because my Suzuki is very well looked after by the franchised Suzuki dealer I bought it from.