Two up hill climbing

[pappasmurf]

I live in Bermuda.
Top speed is 50 KPH.
We have a LOT of hills.
If I was willing to sacrifice a bit of top end speed, which I'll never use, can I improve both hill climbing and acceleration from 0-50?
Is it as simple as changing roller weights?
Do I need a different variator? (love the looks of JCosta, do they perform?)
Is it even possible?
I'm a heavy guy, 210lb, and often take my son to school on the PCX.
Am I simply asking too much, or is this doable?

[chicaboo]

If you really mean 50 kilometres per hour, and that's not a typo, that's no problem at all. Even stock, really...
The stock variator is best for low gearing. Just add some 11-12g sliders if you have a 150cc, maybe 10g if it's a 125cc.
If that's not enough you can get a KN Planning HD clutch from Webike that will give you more stall to get away quicker.

[pappasmurf]

Yep. 50 KPH. Not a typo.
So, it's as simple as adding lighter rollers to improve hill climbing?
Thank you.
Not nearly as complicated or expensive as I imagined it would be.

[chicaboo]

It's quite hilly where I live, and I weigh 260lbs. When I added sliders it was a remarkable improvement.
My original clutch was pretty stuffed by 4500kms, so I replaced it with the KN Planning one I mentioned, and it's quite good now.

[Mel46]

The big advantage of upgrading the variator and drive face is that it gives you more top end...like around 10 mph more. Since you don't need top end for speed, it helps you to maintain speed going up a hill. Most of us lose speed going up a hill to the point where you have it wide open and are still falling behind the rest of the traffic. Having a higher top end gives you that extra umph you need.
Just changing the rollers gets you up to cruising speed faster, but you are still limited when you hit those hills.

[pappasmurf]

OK...
Starting to get confused here.
To climb hills better, I need lighter rollers, an upgraded variator and drive face (recommendations?), and perhaps even a new clutch?
This is fast moving out of cheap n easy territory.

[kramnala58]

I weigh slightly less than you and put a JCosta variator in which I am very satisfied with off the line. With riding exclusively in a congested city, my top-end speed is not a concern at all. Sorry, but I can't recall what weight my sliders (rollers?) are.

[PCX150Rider]

I've been to Bermuda and he's not kidding about the speed limits. Sailed there out of NY on one of the last voyages of the British liner "Ocean Monarch". The place used to be crawling with Velosolex mopeds years ago. . .25 MPH was all you needed . . .30 was better.

If you're interested here's a short old video about it's last run to Bermuda from England. Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAN4odxijrU

[chicaboo]

The big advantage of upgrading the variator and drive face is that it gives you more top end...like around 10 mph more. Since you don't need top end for speed, it helps you to maintain speed going up a hill. Most of us lose speed going up a hill to the point where you have it wide open and are still falling behind the rest of the traffic. Having a higher top end gives you that extra umph you need.
Just changing the rollers gets you up to cruising speed faster, but you are still limited when you hit those hills.

OK...
Starting to get confused here.
To climb hills better, I need lighter rollers, an upgraded variator and drive face (recommendations?), and perhaps even a new clutch?
This is fast moving out of cheap n easy territory.

I respectfully disagree with you here Mel. Let me explain:
I fully believe the better acceleration and hill climbing is due to the lighter rollers and nothing to do with the variator profile/size.
The variator/drive face profile and size change the gearing yes, but taller gearing comes at the cost of acceleration, almost always.
This is greatly compensated for by the lighter rollers. So comparing stock to NCY kit, you get spades of everything in improvement.
However, I've done all the combinations I could work out, and the best acceleration was with the stock variator and lighter sliders.
The added benefit of sliders being that they give you some extra gearing in themselves due to their unusual profile.

Pappa, my recommendation for people who aren't interested in increasing top speed, but only acceleration stands. IE: lighter sliders.
My current setup with 12g sliders and KN Planning HD clutch gives me outstanding acceleration up hills to at least 80kph.
Granted I have intake/exhaust mods... But before that I did very well with just 11g sliders when everything else was mostly stock.

[Mel46]

PCX150Rider mentioned that the speed limit is 30 mph?? In that case, chicaboo is definitely correct. You will never reach the bike's top end if the max speed required is only 30 mph. All you would need then is lighter rollers or sliders. I went with 13 gram NCY rollers, but then I have the NCY variator installed, which does not play well with sliders. Buy some sliders and your problem should be solved.

Here in the United States, if you change the rollers you will get up to cruising speed quickly, so you can keep up with traffic easily. However, there are higher speed limits here, so if you reach 60 mph and you are approaching a steep incline, your chance of keeping the bike at that speed will go down as you climb because the maximum for the bike is around 64 mph and you will lose speed during the climb.

[pappasmurf]

Thank you all.
Lighter rollers or sliders seem to be the consensus.
Are sliders better than rollers for my application?

[chicaboo]

Sliders have a slightly smaller profile than rollers at lower revs, so are supposed to have a gearing advantage.
At the top end, 13g sliders will add 10km extra top speed on the centre stand, with better acceleration.
11g sliders work out to be roughly the same top speed as stock on the stand, with much better acceleration.
In real world riding, the extra RPM lighter sliders/rollers allow gives you more power to go faster anyhow.

The only drawback is engine noise as your RPMs are increased, with everything else better all the time.
11g sliders will cost you slightly on fuel consumption, with 13g sliders actually being better than stock.
I haven't done much testing with 12g sliders since my crash, but they were spot on for my mods...
But for your riding I still think 11g sliders are fine for a 150cc. Take at least 1g off for a 125cc.

[u33db]

Lighter rollers are definitely all you need with that speed limit.

Probably the steepest hill i have to go up is the following;



I don't know how steep it is in % gradient but with stock 125 rollers (15g) it would accelerate up to about 38 mph by the top of the hill which is maybe 2/300 meters from the corner. With the 10.5g rollers i have now it'll hit roughly 42 mph, which is enough to keep ahead of most cars.

Thats rolling start from maybe 15mph turning up the hill - if you are actually pulling away on a gradient like that stiffer clutch springs would help but that's still not big money.

Put it like this I wouldn't be spending more than 60 pounds/dollars for the whole lot, or half that for just rollers and get a good hike in speed.