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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:04 pm 
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k2apache6.0 wrote:
I guess I'm too mentally lazy to 'choose' my parts. I just want them (yuminashi) to have done all that for me already, just send me the whole part, TB, Manifold, and whatever else, already researched, just bolt it on and go lol. If I get about 3 more horses with a fairly flat power delivery I'll be happy. I know I'll probably need the Kitaco gear up kit too to get any more topend speed, I take it you've already aquired one of those? I definately dont want to have to buy AFR meters and such, stuff I'll likely never use again. Probably all I'd likely do is have it dyno'd on completion and overlay the graph onto the stock 150 graph. Hopefully it won't lose anywhere and gain most places, especially after about 6,000 rpm in view of the Yoshi pipe I already have. In that other thread the guy who just did a BBK for someone said the guy said he wanted ,smooth'. That represents my attitude pretty well too. Smooth and safe (for the engine) with good fuel metering.

I don't need the Kitaco gear-up kit if that's what you mean? Aussie KF12s are already the fastest in the business! :P
I'm already geared to an indicated 130kph stock, and can extend that beyond 150kph+ with my Daytona variator.
So I can artificially keep the scooter away from the rev-limit if I want to save fuel or whatever else.

So you know, my scoot pretty much sits on 6000-7000rpm when cruising with the 13g sliders (speed dependant).
When I kick it in the guts, the variator picks up to almost 7500rpm under hard acceleration, and goes from there.
All these stats change as I make more power. But I can make changes with the 11g sliders or 14g Daytona rollers.

I'm expecting to have a pretty smooth setup with what I've got. It's only getting the mild Takegawa cam with the BBK.
I've not lightened the mass on the flywheel or the clutch/bell, so I won't have any unexpected hardships putting around.
The only drive changes I may need to make are a firmer contra spring or sports oriented driven pulley for acceleration.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:13 pm 
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Cant wait for the final outcome, it's getting exciting aint it.
Was just thinking though, if you went on a diet wouldnt the resultant loss of mass not to mention unsprung weight be the equivelent of all these mods? add to that the benefits to your health and well being ..Jus kidding Gav Hahahahahaa :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:22 pm 
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Dieting, eh? Never thought of that... :P I'm working on it, well, not so much in the heat of summer mind you. :oops:
But I've lost 45kg over the past few years. Weight I put on after being immobile from a Redback (Black Widow) spider bite.
My PCX might blow away HDs, and I will never know it. Maybe I will even go as fast as a stock PCX with a small Asian woman riding it? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Haha good banter. British/Aussie banter, we can take it matey. Won't hijack the thread asking about the spider bite but it sounds really interesting. Anyway feel free to call me a skinny pommie runt anytime :)
Back to business, looking forward to the next installment. Gav's PCX 'Boss 169'
BTW I might put on that tire you were interested in, the 120 city grip, with the stretch kit, I'll take pics for my mod thread so you can have a look.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:02 am 
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My experience with big injectors overall are they tend to make low TPS range very very rich, I'm talking about 11 to 12 AFR rich, that's a lot. Your engine is lazy with that AFR, not making torque. Plus your fuel economy will be terrible.
The situation is.
Takegawa is on the mild side of things, it will be better sure, but if you're looking for serious power gain, Takegawa might not satisfy you, I know they didn't satisfy me..
Yuminashi is on the absolute other end of things, it will be a shit load better. I have a guy, running their 60mm (164cc) piston, with stock valves, 35mm throttle body, he managed to get 13.5 HP. But Yuminashi camshaft will make your bike more difficult to start sometimes and you need tricks to save that. In return you have amazing power.
Hmm, what to choose what to choose ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:12 am 
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What is there between the "6 holes A type injector" (CBR150R) and the stock 150cc injector?
I think the 6 hole is way overkill for my interim 31mm IM+TB upgrade, but I bought it for the BBK as a whole.
I'm just trying to see what can be done with the parts I have as an intermediate upgrade, since I was curious.
Don't forget, I got the 6 holes injector on your recommendation. :P



EDIT: Yuminashi list the flow rates in this order.

FLOW RATE GUIDE:

- B-TYPE 6 HOLES LIGHT BORE INJECTOR 16450-K26-000
- Tuning Starter

- B-TYPE 8 HOLES LOW FLOW HIGH PERFORMANCE INJECTOR 16450-K26-008A
- Higher Flow Rate as the 6-holes Light Bore injector

- A-TYPE 6 HOLES HIGH PERFORMANCE INJECTOR 16450-KWN-001
- Higher Flow Rate as the 8-holes B-type High Performance Injector

- B-TYPE 8 HOLES HIGH FLOW HIGH PERFORMANCE INJECTOR 16450-K26-008B
- Higher Flow Rate as the 6-holes High Performance injector

- B-TYPE 10 HOLES BIG BORE INJECTOR 16450-K26-001
- Higher Flow Ras as the 6-holes A-type High Performance Injector

- B-TYPE 10 HOLES SPL HIGH PERFORMANCE INJECTOR 16450-K26-010
- Higher Flow Rate as the 10-holes B-type Big Bore Injector


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:08 am 
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Update: A friend and I made a custom throttle cable bracket yesterday, and so today I put the scoot mostly back together and went for a quick test and tune.

The bigger fuel injector intended for the BBK had to be installed with the 31mm TB because I bought the A type 31 manifold which needs that injector type.
Anyhow, the big injector is hard to -offset without​ the BBK, so open loop* has dropped from stock 12:1 AFR to 11.5~12:1 AFR with fuelling backed right off.
I have some headroom with the idle/cruise fuelling, so that runs from 12.5~13.5:1 AFR up to 7500RPM, but I will likely back that off a little bit closer to 14:1.

*I say open loop, but really this is a high RPM/load fuel zone set above 7500RPM to simulate open loop operation based on RPM rather than 80%+ throttle.
To use the Dobeck in this manner requires disconnecting the O2 sensor to force a constant open loop condition that I can set 2 fuel zones for with an offset.
A drawback is that I'm getting 2 error codes on the digital dash (E10 on idle and E03 when cruising). I assume both are related to disconnecting the O2 sensor.
I can reconnect the O2 sensor and let the stock ECM control fuelling up to 80% throttle for stoich AFR and have the Dobeck do the fuelling beyond that...

ATM I'm using a foam pod filter until I get around to doing the big tube upgrade to the stock airbox. Consequently the full throttle sound is evil and heinous!
The riding experience wasn't my main focus tonight, but I could tell the scoot had some more energy in the upper rev range going up the hills around here.
The scoot is somewhat over aspirated with just the 31mm TB and IM with no cam or anything. But it picks up in the mid range and doesn't feel sluggish at all.
The big tube airbox mod should resolve this as the longer intake runner should help balance out the power band. I will need to remove the outer snorkel though.

Well, that's about it until I get to the airbox next weekend maybe.
Gav.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:16 pm 
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If you want it done, ready and go just ask Yuminashi to prepare it for you with the links to their stuffs and buy what they recommend. I doubt they can mess up a simple recommendation.
And yes they are overpriced, but for the injector. For the wire loom I still can't figure out where they get the male jack to make that so yeah buying from them is your only choice I guess.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:38 pm 
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I find when talking to Danny at Yuminashi he will try to upsell you and guilt you for not buying their parts (even though they didn't offer a 175cc kit when I bought my CM...).
So I'm not certain how simple a recommendation would be from them if you're not sure what you want from the outset? But on a part by part basis they are very good.
My only regret in hindsight is not buying the 31mm TB directly from them. However I saved $70 on the finished CBR TB, and about $20 on the injector I purchased from Asia.
The savings on my 175cc CM BBK compared to the 175cc Yuminashi offer now is significant. That alone can pay for a Yuminashi 35mm TB, or injector/loom/IM, or fuel controller...
Once I've had my BBK and cam installed for a while, I would like to add a 35mm TB, and maybe their 3 layer copper gasket. I'm not sure I want the starting issues of their cam?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:58 am 
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You have a 150 starter and rotor set. With the proper adjustment starting is not a problem. I use their camshaft for my customer all the time with no problem. Back then it was a bit noisy when they chose stainless steel to make cams but now it's cast iron so it's much quieter.
I got 16.43HP out of a yuminashi 62mm and 35tb setup, so get the 35tb too.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:10 am 
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When I was chatting to Danny this morning, he mentioned your dyno results. Did that scoot have a cam?

I'm going to order the Yuminashi 0.5mm copper gasket and an NGK CR9/10 sparkplug for the BBK install.
I want to get some mileage out of the 31mm TB first after the trouble I went to to get it to fit and working...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:22 am 
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That scooter has a yuminashi camshaft with 150 valves.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:26 am 
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Well I never liked the idea of that forward leaning throttle cable bracket. So making another one is always a good idea, for me at least.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:43 am 
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BPT7594 wrote:
Well I never liked the idea of that forward leaning throttle cable bracket. So making another one is always a good idea, for me at least.

The throttle cam on the 31mm TB is designed for a forward mount cable. The risk you take with running a rear mount cable stay is that you may break the nipple off the cable one day.
The reason being is that in the upper half of the cable travel your pulling directly on the nipple without the cable sitting in the cam valley to disperse the torque over a larger surface.
Also, when you're pulling directly on the nipple you are twisting it as you turn the throttle. Something that it isn't meant to happen when the cable is seated correctly. But it gets worse.
Add to that the 31mm throttle spring is maybe 50% firmer than the stock throttle spring, and you have designed in a weak link. Going by bicycles, it may take years to break, but still...

Technically it's harder to get a good cable line with a forward mount cable stay, but it's way safer in the long run. The design I sent you was fairly close to the final bracket I had made.
If I had to make a second one, I would make some minor changes to get it perfect. If I could be bothered I guess I could remove the bracket I made and heat it up to improve the angles...
But alas it works, and clears the seat without binding or pinching on anything. I think it will do for the length of time I will have the 31mm TB for, and then do just as well for the next person.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:26 am 
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Well the wrong thing is putting a cbr throttle body on a pcx lol, but ok we see problems, we figure out ways to deal with it.
I would strongly recommend you to get the yuminashi camshaft, not that I'm their public relations officer but I figure if you have decided to put a camshaft in there why not go all out and get the most out of your engine?
In the great words of Ron Swanson, never half ass 2 things. Whole ass 1 thing


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:44 am 
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Hmm, I have the Takegawa cam here, I sort of want to see what it can do.
If it turns out that it's too noisy and underperforming I will bite the bullet and get the Yuminashi cam and rockers.
I want to get a dyno once I have the BBK and cam in there with the 31mm TB & IM, and see what it puts out then...
I'm aiming for 15+WHP once all of the above has been done. Maybe 16WHP with the 35m TB? Sounds like a plan.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:51 am 
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Jeez, just chatted with Daniel over at Yuminashi, requested 'simplified' set up, all the parts needed as a 'kit' tried and true, worked well for other customers no 'research' required. He was good and explained the differing options with patience and expertise, to his credit.
To cut a long story short. On the balls to the wall option, long parts list including valve springs, roller/rockers, electronics and such like. In a word 'Daunting'. Then theres the dyo'ing to set the electronics/fuel metering et al. the 'all out' kit is beyond my price range tbh and complicated, Non plussed at this point in time. The other option is a streetable 'kit' without large TB and cuts the price down to about $550 shipped, and even that one has the springs and the roller/rockers. Evidently the cam/roller/rockers and the controllers are a must, the cam for the necessary bump in performance and the controller because of too rich cruising and too lean conditions at open throttle, Dyno'ing is mandatory to get the system tuned. Don't know if the webike route with Takegawa kits is any less involved either, damn I just want to bolt on and go, no dicking around! ..decisions decisions

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:44 pm 
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I think you can save on the valve springs if not raising the rev limit, BPT can chime in on that one since he's been there.
I bet the CM/Takegawa route sounds easy now eh? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:05 pm 
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chicaboo wrote:
I think you can save on the valve springs if not raising the rev limit, BPT can chime in on that one since he's been there.
I bet the CM/Takegawa route sounds easy now eh? :lol:


TBH yes, somewhat, a lot of fuss and money for the extra 3-4 bhp I'm after.
Webike has a bunch of Takegawa BBK's in different variations for V1, V2, and V3 PCX's worth a look, but now I'm wondering about the CM kit by itself lol, nothing extra.
This Takagawa kit looks good and has the cam, pushing the limits price wise but...
http://japan.webike.net/products/21226842.html

And this as the cheap version without cam although is it worth the extra over the CM kit?
http://japan.webike.net/products/21226843.html

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:19 pm 
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I wouldn't waste my time on the cheaper Takegawa kit, as it's the same as the CM kit off eBay, but 5cc less...
The middle ground Takegawa kit comes with the cam at least, and you could probably tune it with an Innovate LC2?
Can you buy the Takegawa cam separately with the 175cc CM eBay kit? That's what I have, but I got the cam used.

Don't be worried about hp, even the full Takegawa kit dyno shows 15hp with a short excursion to 16hp at only 170cc!
On top of the fully loaded Takegawa kit I have the 31mm TB/IM and an extra 5cc. So I'm expecting at least 15hp ATW.
Don't forget you need a bigger fuel injector, if you get the one in my sig, you need a loom adaptor from Yuminashi...


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