Variator and clutch Mod

[alx123]

In my search for new pads to solve my noisy clutch problem, I came across a shop that specializes in PCX, nmax, xmax and Forza scooters.

the main guy's quite nice and he knows about the clutch problem of the PCX, said it's pretty common. He then offered his set of variator and clutch for a good price instead of just changing the pads. I'm not sure why, but I agreed instantly. (Guy has some persuasion skills )

It didn't help that I Saw good reviews on his FB page and he can speak some English. So I booked an appointment tonight at 7 and Here i am thinking if I actually did decide on impulse. My wife thinks i did

Review of the mods will follow.

Photos of the clutch pads and variators

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[homie]

What exactly has been modified here? So we can understand your performance review, or are these aftermarket parts milled to OEM specs?

[alx123]

Just got back from the shop, took him an hour to change the drive parts.
He said the drive face and clutch pads are already worn, so it's just the perfect time to change.

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@Homie

He produce his own drive parts; both plate, drive face, pads and clutch bell.

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His version of plate which he claim to add top end and acceleration..

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The clutch he said is made of carbon for better grip..

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The clutch bell with small grooves on the wall..im guessing for adding grip too

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He mixed 11 grams and 13 grams OEM Honda weights (3 each). He said Honda weights are of good quality..


Iv'e only driven the scoot from the shop to our place for only about 2 kms in heavy traffic, so I cannot give a good review yet..

Two things I noticed:

1. Clutter is gone, no hesitation, smooth take off
2. faster acceleration

I might be able to run it longer periods in the next few days, so I can post a much detailed feedback here.
I did set another appointment for him next week to change my rear brake pads as they are nearing their life too.

[alx123]

First day review.

My ride to work is approximately 30 kms, with moderate traffic I mostly ran the scoot at around 80-90 kph.

I didn't get any chance to run WOT but I was able to reach 110 kph easily at some point. It seem to take off a little faster, with mid range even better (from 60-100kph). I wasn't sure how much top end it will reach though.

The clutch hesitation (clutter, squeak) gone. Taking off smoother.

Cons; I'm not sure how to explain, let me try. The variator is more noisier and it seems to be screaming high pitched when I give it more gas. The RPM go up faster maybe? unlike the stock variator where it will gradually increase RPM while your'e giving it gas. This seems to be going up faster and screaming. I am not used to it being a little bit noisy. Might not be negative, maybe i just need to get used to it.

I'll give it a few more days to see if I like it, or if there is any effect on the fuel consumption.

I thank you

[iceman]

Some posted a similar cure for the clutch shudder to this forum some time ago, 22535-KVB-900 instead of stock PCX (they are for other Honda bikes) and cure the problem.

[alx123]

Some posted a similar cure for the clutch shudder to this forum some time ago, 22535-KVB-900 instead of stock PCX (they are for other Honda bikes) and cure the problem.

Yes, I am aware of that. I cannot actually find the 2235-KVB-900 in stock here.

Seems like the aftermarket clutch makers here in Thailand are aware of this problem and their clutch address this as well.

No more clutter now, smooth take off on mine.

[Mel46]

You probably felt the bike take off faster because of the new rollers. The Honda OEM rollers weigh more. I think they are either 16 gram or 18 gram rollers. Most of the members here who have made changes for improved takeoff changed to 13 gram rollers. The 11 gram rollers may get you up to speed too quick, which means your RPM is higher as well, which may be causing the screaming. Just a thought.

[homie]

Please correct me if you can concerning this set of unique clutch parts to the best of your ability.

It appears to me from the images of the clutch shoes that a significantly harder material has replaced the softer OEM shoes. This would explain the ability to grove the outer bell race as an aggressive surface on the race would quickly destroy softer standard OEM shoes. If I'm correct in accessing the modification of the clutch shoe materials there WOULD be increased noise There also will be increased heat generated by this aggressive aftermarket clutch. Don't misunderstand I'm totally intrigued by the clutch parts you found and I wish I had a set to install but lets get back to the potential problem of excessive heat in the area of the clutch and bell housing.

Adjacent and right next to your clutch is a very delicate balance of grease and bearings, the ones that make up the FACE SET DRIVEN. The FSD bearings are notoriously sensitive for lacking grease and failing. The quality, consistency, amount and heat tolerances of the grease used is critical on these bearings. If the grease melts you'll lose it and grease will run into the race area of the clutch bell. The grooved area of the clutch bell is where you'll need to monitor while you test this new design in summer months. If you find grease in the clutch race strip out all existing grease from the bearings and repack according to the manual (specifically 7 grams of grease) no more, no less with a higher heat tolerance grease. Clean up the shoes and race by cooking off any old grease with a hot air gun and try again with high quality upgraded grease.

I'm very interested in this agressive clutch design, its longevity, performance and how it manages heat around the bearings will be fun. I hope I haven't disturbed you. The worse than could happen is you'll need a new FSDriven pulley assembly sooner rather than later if the heat transfers to the bearings and you don't notice whats happening. Symptoms will be changes in the clutch performance and sound as grease enters the race area. Perhaps smoke and smell but no damages to your clutch just burning grease from the FSD bearings. Keep us posted please and its fun to tinker with the variator and clutch for sure... ENJOY!

Great Post man

[alx123]

@homie

it actually crossed my mind, the hardened material will surely generate more heat. I am imagining fireworks inside my clutch bell as the hard material grind the grooved wall.

Now, what will happen if I take a very long ride? Let's say 300 kms trip? I will bring this up with the guy when I see him again.

I'm kinda happy it solved the clutter issue and the take off is smoother now. Your'e correct though, drive parts slightly noisier now.


@Mel46

You're right. The RPM climbing up faster than the stock, hence the screaming feeling. I just need to ease up on the throttle, realized that i was so used in using the stock variator that I need to slightly adjust my throttle habit.


I did kinda try to WOT it today, and it seem to be giving me the same Top end, though I get there faster (i think so). I'm gonna give this a few more days, though I'm glad my PCX clutter issue is gone (at least for now).

[homie]

No fireworks if he's found the proper hardness of shoes. Note the angle of the grooves on the race are forgiving AND self cleansing you'll never have problems with glazing

When I was a kid we had the standard mini bike centrifugal clutch and it was pretty much steel on steel. Indestructible and never needed replacement parts it was the C-clip that held the outer bell chain sprocket that wore thin and broke before anything else. The outer bell and chain would fall off and the steel shoes would come off like a grenade I still have a scar on my chin from one of the steel shoes hitting me in the chin Do you remember these little time bombs? They were GREAT!

I'm really liking this guys design a lot! Enough to sort out any heat transfer to bearings with high temp grease.

Now... what are the chances you mail me that modified clutch outer and a set of them aggressive shoes plus any special hardware needed to replace my OEM clutch shoes on the stock assembly? I will send money in advance for parts, shipping and your time and trouble, PM me please.

[alx123]

Update:

I went back and ask the guy if we could change the weights, the 11g and 13g combination I believe is actually quite heavy that it pushes the scoot into higher gear faster than it should be. Top speed increased, I was able to go beyond 120 kph at some point, but you will need a very long road for that. Riding with my wife , the engine screaming more as well. This is also the reason why I feel the RPM is screaming. Too heavy weights were used I think.

He agreed to change it and he put mix of 8g and 12g this time, average of 10g (why not just put 10g?). I feel better acceleration now, but I haven't run it enough to test the mid to high speed range. We'll see tomorrow.

I'm quite happy with the clutch, no clutter or hesitation on take off. Drive parts noisier than stock, but I'm not quite sure if it's the clutch or the new variator.

I also just ordered a clutch tool from ebay, as I want to experiment with the weights myself.

[alx123]

Update:

Iv'e used the 12g rollers for a week now. I like this one better as the mid range(60-100) is excellent. Gives me 120kph topend (74.5 mph). A little sluggish at the start, probably because rollers are a little too light. I will try to change them into 11g once my adjustable torque wrench arrived.

Clutch is working perfectly. No hesitation, not smooth but more like an instant engagement. (It could be the rollers too.)

Only downside is, consumption now down to 49 km/L. (used to be 54 km/L)

more updates once i installed the 11g rollers..

[alx123]

Last update:

Iv'e tried 11g rollers with this variator and I believe it is the most appropriate one to use. The acceleration is more linear, no engine vibration and the topend (120kph) is a little better than stock (115kph).

With that said, I put the stock variator back. With a stock engine, I believe the stock variator with the 15g rollers offers the most efficient powerband to rpm ratio. With aftermarket variator, the engine rpm climbs too fast and the engine feels nervous all the time, it seem to want you to hit the gas all the time. It feel faster but it is not for me. I like the stock's relax and quite engine better.

The clutch is perfect though. No more stutter or any hesitation on take off. Solved everything I hate about the stock clutch.

Conclusion: Stock engine, use stock variators. Replace stock clutch pads to a better material to solve the take off stutter problem

Closed thread.

[grndslm]

Did you try the stock variator with lighter rollers?

[alx123]

Did you try the stock variator with lighter rollers?

not yet but i already bought sets of rollers from 10g to 15g, just cant find the time to tinker with the scoot..

i'll try 13g on the stock variator soon..

[alx123]

10 months of using the clutch and i never did experience the clutch stuttering anymore, not even once. smooth acceleration all the way.

Still using the stock variator now as aftermarket ones are giving me nonlinear rpm climb, not to my liking.
Stock varaitor runs perfectly for me, relax and linear. Top end is not important for me anymore, 115kph is more than enough.

Conclusions:

Any problems regarding stuttering at low speed could be solved by changing the clutch shoes material.
Stock variator runs smoother than aftermarket ones. Change the weights (maybe 13g) if you want more pull in lower speeds.

[Old Grinner]

Conclusions:

Any problems regarding stuttering at low speed could be solved by changing the clutch shoes material.
Stock variator runs smoother than aftermarket ones. Change the weights (maybe 13g) if you want more pull in lower speeds.

Sounds like life is good!

My clutch/variator tool is a "Motion Pro". Figured I'd get one when I started riding scooters . . ..

[big tommy]

10 months of using the clutch and i never did experience the clutch stuttering anymore, not even once. smooth acceleration all the way.

Still using the stock variator now as aftermarket ones are giving me nonlinear rpm climb, not to my liking.
Stock varaitor runs perfectly for me, relax and linear. Top end is not important for me anymore, 115kph is more than enough.

Conclusions:

Any problems regarding stuttering at low speed could be solved by changing the clutch shoes material.
Stock variator runs smoother than aftermarket ones. Change the weights (maybe 13g) if you want more pull in lower speeds.

Have sent you a pm alx123 ....

[bago]

Last update:

Iv'e tried 11g rollers with this variator and I believe it is the most appropriate one to use. The acceleration is more linear, no engine vibration and the topend (120kph) is a little better than stock (115kph).

With that said, I put the stock variator back. With a stock engine, I believe the stock variator with the 15g rollers offers the most efficient powerband to rpm ratio. With aftermarket variator, the engine rpm climbs too fast and the engine feels nervous all the time, it seem to want you to hit the gas all the time. It feel faster but it is not for me. I like the stock's relax and quite engine better.

The clutch is perfect though. No more stutter or any hesitation on take off. Solved everything I hate about the stock clutch.

Conclusion: Stock engine, use stock variators. Replace stock clutch pads to a better material to solve the take off stutter problem

Closed thread.

I started to have the same problem, rattling at slow speeds, and rattling at the morning start. I took my pcx to the local service where they cleaned the housing and put it all together back (everything was like new inside - after 14.000 kms, year 2017), and the rattling had gone for 400 kms, now it is back.

I read all your posts here, could you please help me what exact brand of clutch pads did you put in your pcx? Was it the 22535-KVB-900?
How did this modification influence your fuel consumption? Did it have any harmful effect on other parts?

Thank you for your answer!

[150pcxer]

Hi all,

where can i get the carbon clutch shoes/pads?