2013 150 Engine Mods?

Drivetrain upgrades, engine upgrades, or any other mods to gain speed or acceleration.

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chicaboo
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

I've got an exhaust shop lined up for Saturday.
I've asked him to look at making my exhaust quieter too. So fingers crossed...
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

It's too bad that there isn't a company that has packages put together with everything you need to build your engine to level A, B, C, etc. Take the guess work out of it for those of us with less engine tech experience. Sorting through all of the threads with "I'm doing this, than maybe that if it works" is fun, but really doesn't get us anywhere. It looks like Yuminashi has that capability, and someone like me would be more likely to drop money on it if it were available.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

Takegawa is the only company that puts together 3 different packages.
They do a full 170cc kit with injector, cam and basic preprogrammed ECU based on XYZ mods.

Yuminashi you need to do some reading or speak to Danny or Bach Pham about what works best.
But with Yuminashi you can go 164 or 175cc with a myriad of options to whatever level you want.
It gets a bit tricky with injectors, looms, heads, throttle cables and manifold options, but you're spoiled for choice.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

chicaboo wrote:Takegawa is the only company that puts together 3 different packages.
They do a full 170cc kit with injector, cam and basic preprogrammed ECU based on XYZ mods.

Yuminashi you need to do some reading or speak to Danny or Bach Pham about what works best.
But with Yuminashi you can go 164 or 175cc with a myriad of options to whatever level you want.
It gets a bit tricky with injectors, looms, heads, throttle cables and manifold options, but you're spoiled for choice.
If I do anything with a BBK, I want to go as big as possible, and include anything that will also keep the motor safe. (Understanding there will be more stress on it, but I'm not trying to build drag racer). I would do cam, valves, springs, etc. Would love to build it up enough to give a 2-5hp boost, but retain the durability if at all possible. What do you think?
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

What you're describing is the build I put together. At the time I bought the CM kit, 175cc was the biggest you could go.
The CM kit has much lower compression than the Yuminashi kits and no issues with gaskets lining up with water jackets.
The Takegawa cam let's you retain your decompression unit for easier starting, even though it's not as aggressive as the Yuminashi cam.
I've got the A type 6 holes injector which directly fits the Dobeck EJK, the A type 31mm intake manifold, and 31mm TB with big tube.
I have a Yuminashi 62mm domed piston to help bring up the compression ratio somewhere in between without being sky high.

To me this is a well rounded and reliable build that should net another 4-5HP at the wheel after the Dobeck is tuned to ~13:1 AFR.
If I ever want to chase those last bits of power, I can add a Yuminashi copper gasket, cam and finally a 35mm throttle body.
The only regret I have is not buying the 31mm TB from Yuminashi so I didn't have pay someone else to close the unused port.
Since I bought all my parts, Yuminashi now have 175cc kits for both the 125cc and 150cc platforms, but they are much dearer than CM.
If you're prepared to wait, they are 196/200cc? kits coming out in who knows when. I expect them to be expensive but make big power.

It is tough deciding on what parts to get and what power you're likely to make afterwards.
I got advice from Oyabun originally, but went my own way with the Dobeck and domed cam.
Since the Dobeck let's you set AFR for idle/cruise and separately for power/acceleration, it sounded like a good way to retain economy.
To tune the Dobeck I have an AEM wideband gauge with Bosch LSU4.2 sensor to give me feedback on the AFR.
So I can see the fuel crossover points activating on the Dobeck, I have new Kitaco digital gauge cluster with tacho coming.
I was originally using an RPM meter that clamps onto the sparkplug, but it had issues and only displayed half the actual RPM...

You don't need a tacho and wideband gauge if you're getting someone else to install everything, but I'm doing it mostly myself.
I'm keen on the new Yuminashi 35mm TB. It's priced well and comes with improved sensors to help maintain better fuelling.
So I may very well upgrade the TB and gasket some point. But I've not considered touching the head as the LS1 is very expensive!
Who knows, Yuminashi may come out with a 4V head at some point, which would really help make some big horsepower. :D
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

I just realised that I didn't touch on valve springs... :oops:

OK, since my Aussie OWL model is much taller geared compared to the US market PCX, I'm nowhere near bouncing off the rev limiter.
And since I'm not raising the rev limiter, I shouldn't be adding too much extra stress on the valve springs even with the Takegawa cam.

When I had the crappy tacho mounted, I never saw it go over 8000RPM with the type of riding I do.
I rarely go on the HWY, so not sure about the revs there, but somewhere around 8500-9000RPM I expect?
If for some reason I wanted to do more HWY riding, I always have the Daytona variator to increase my gearing to ridiculous levels.

The big problem I have with the performance valve springs is that they add so much resistance that they rob you of power.
There's a before and after dyno graph posted on here by some guy who upgraded his valve springs, and he lost power and top speed.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by BPT7594 »

I am finding a solution for the valve springs. Just you wait, I will dig out a pair of valve springs that are not so hard it makes the RPM climb slow.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

Thank you for that write up of what you're doing! I have to say the thought of roughly 200cc kit would be my dream PCX, or maybe the 4 valve head.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

Hopefully in the next 6 months there's a 200cc kit and 4V head? Top it off with Yuminashi's 35mm TB, and holy crap!
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by BPT7594 »

4V head from a Forza 125, the water holes will be for a 125 cylinder. Don't hold your breath. If they manage to get it and weld the water holes, relocate them it will still be problematic. Possibility? I think very small. Forza 125 is sold in Europe. Honda Europe price is next to insanity.
200cc, that means going bigger with the piston, a 66mm piston will make a nice 198cc. However, 66mm piston meaning you will have to relocate the water holes on the head, even if it's a 150 because 66 piston and your gasket is thin like a razor. Maybe even close the water holes and run water separately.
stroking the crankshaft will give you more torque, but no more top end. If you guys know that the SH300 tops out at 140km/h stock you would not want that long stroke crankshaft so much.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

BPT7594 wrote:4V head from a Forza 125, the water holes will be for a 125 cylinder. Don't hold your breath. If they manage to get it and weld the water holes, relocate them it will still be problematic. Possibility? I think very small. Forza 125 is sold in Europe. Honda Europe price is next to insanity.
200cc, that means going bigger with the piston, a 66mm piston will make a nice 198cc. However, 66mm piston meaning you will have to relocate the water holes on the head, even if it's a 150 because 66 piston and your gasket is thin like a razor. Maybe even close the water holes and run water separately.
stroking the crankshaft will give you more torque, but no more top end. If you guys know that the SH300 tops out at 140km/h stock you would not want that long stroke crankshaft so much.
I hit the limiter at about 75mph. I can't remember what the Stock gear set is on my bike, but if the The Yuminashi 15/45 gearset is tall enough to get me in the 85mph range, I would be happy. (just need the extra hp to get there). I would never cruise at that speed, but it would be nice to have it when it's needed.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

vamootsman wrote:
BPT7594 wrote:4V head from a Forza 125, the water holes will be for a 125 cylinder. Don't hold your breath. If they manage to get it and weld the water holes, relocate them it will still be problematic. Possibility? I think very small. Forza 125 is sold in Europe. Honda Europe price is next to insanity.
200cc, that means going bigger with the piston, a 66mm piston will make a nice 198cc. However, 66mm piston meaning you will have to relocate the water holes on the head, even if it's a 150 because 66 piston and your gasket is thin like a razor. Maybe even close the water holes and run water separately.
stroking the crankshaft will give you more torque, but no more top end. If you guys know that the SH300 tops out at 140km/h stock you would not want that long stroke crankshaft so much.
I hit the limiter at about 75mph. I can't remember what the Stock gear set is on my bike, but if the The Yuminashi 15/45 gearset is tall enough to get me in the 85mph range, I would be happy. (just need the extra hp to get there). I would never cruise at that speed, but it would be nice to have it when it's needed.
You can raise the gearing substantially with just a variator, so no need to take apart the transaxle and stuff around.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

Already have the NCY Variator and Drive face installed.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

vamootsman wrote:Already have the NCY Variator and Drive face installed.
Oh, you must have one of those low geared PCXs from the factory.
My stock variator is good for 81mph with 13g sliders.
I guess you do need the taller gear set if you want to go faster. :(
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by BPT7594 »

Taller gear set does not necessarily mean you will go faster after all. There is a reason Yuminashi is not so happy about their 15/45 gear set. You will need considerable torque to push the bike up with that kind of lower leverage.
Regarding the gearing using the variator. I think it's pretty much fixed don't you think ? Fixed here means if the diameter is the same as stock. Max gearing will stay the same ?
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

Both the Daytona and NCY variators are 120mm with 14° drive faces, but the Daytona is considerably faster for me than for Vamootsman.
This leads me to believe there is some final drive gearing change between scooters from different regions. The rear driven pulley maybe?
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by vamootsman »

chicaboo wrote:Both the Daytona and NCY variators are 120mm with 14° drive faces, but the Daytona is considerably faster for me than for Vamootsman.
This leads me to believe there is some final drive gearing change between scooters from different regions. The rear driven pulley maybe?
Have you GPS's your speedo to make sure its accurate? Most of the years of the PCX speedo's read higher than actual speed from what I've seen on this forum, but the 2013 notoriously accurate. I tested mine with Ulysses Speed app on my phone and with a Garmin GPS and it's dead nuts accurate.
2013 PCX 150 with,
Givi Tall Screen, and E370 Top Case
NCY Variator and Face Plate, 12 gram rollers
Takagawa Silent Oval Exhaust, K&N R1100 pod filter mod
YSS XL Rear Shock Absorbers Michelin City Grip 120/70 Front 140/70 Rear
2013 Honda CB500X with Rally Raid kit
2005 Piaggio X9 500 Evolution
1982 Honda CX500 Turbo
1983 Honda Nighthawk S
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

Nah, I've never tested mine with GPS, since that doesn't tell me max speed on the centre stand.
But my Australian delivered 2012 is what is referred to as a MY2013 in the US market, anyhow.
Without having tested it, I expect it may over-read by 5% judging by the traffic around me.
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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by Gil »

Good info on BBKs. Does anyone know how much power can the CVT handle, slipping belt?
Also, how much is the overall cost for a BBK, cam and with fuel management?
I'm thinking in terms of dollers per horsepower cost?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.


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Re: 2013 150 Engine Mods?

Post by chicaboo »

Hi Gil (check ya bloody PMs!),

I've started a thread with PCXs doing just under 13.5s 1/4 miles.
They probably have every mod you can think of with very high stall clutches and extremely tight contra springs, but the CVT can obviously can take a lot of power with regular belt changes (or breakages...).

The cheapest BBK you can get is this http://www.ebay.com/itm/232085801802 with this exhaust http://nolimitz-maticshop.com/en/honda- ... da-pcx-150 and then leave it at that.
Beyond that you can go crazy, and it becomes too hard to price on what value that has to you. You really need to know what you want at this point, as it's too hard for me to summarise without writing an essay.

Lots of fuel controllers around the $200-250 mark, but some need expert tuning on a dyno which double/triples their cost potentially.
I like the Dobeck EJK with two AFR ranges (plus a wideband sensor/gauge), or the Innovate LC2 bundled with wideband AFR gauge (only one AFR tuning range).
A guy on here went gaga over a DynaJet auto-tune product, but it requires a very expensive LCD hand controller to make adjustments, and still only has one AFR range. So you might as well get a standalone and pay for dyno tuning for the same price...
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