The Honda PCX / Honda Forza Forums

Your predominant source of information for the Honda PCX 125, Honda PCX ESP, Honda PCX 150, and Forza 300. Now featuring a Forza 125 subforum!
It is currently Fri May 26, 2017 11:17 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:32 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Just sharing a Dyno run i did today just to see what HP I'm getting out of it at the wheel.Dyno is load applying so its as accurate as it can be for a Dyno.
I paid for two runs with two diff variators that i thought i was getting best on road performance. Both were tuned with weights for just over 8000rpm on wot take off...I thought that would clearly show me a difference at how much a variator can affect a final power output even if they are evenly set up. I did thought that Daytona would be bit more powerful but alas MFR2 did give me a surprise. It is a great variator,when set up correctly. has a fantastic takeoff speed,low speed control,mid range response and a decent top end..
I stuffed a recording on my phone as i must have got little bit too excited but the video starts from the second Dyno run. You will see a first line run on the lap top set by MFR 2 vario that achieved 15.2hp Max and then the rest of runs were being done on the video by Daytona Vario achieving 14.3hp max.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=OmlCnJ_NM9s

Im using Takegawa Fuel Controller in conjunction with Yuminashi 6 hole high performance injector. My AFR is 13.2 on WOT, cruising is at stableish 14 to 15 and good third throttle is on 12-13afr. The tech was quite happy with it all...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:39 am 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:55 am
Posts: 1109
I know you were hoping for more, but I think that's a very realistic output based on all the other graphs I've seen.
Look at this way, you have about 15kW at the crank, from a scooter that started with about 8.4kW at the crank!*
Because I need to clarify for some - *HP at the wheels with these scoots is roughly the same as kW at the crank...

Nice flat power output across the usable rev range, too. I wonder how MFR2 compares to stock variator with sliders?



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:06 am 
Offline
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:13 pm
Posts: 3357
Location: Marietta, Ga USA
Year: 2013
Color: red PCX
So, which bike is it that you have modded for these tests, the 125cc or the 150cc? When Maddiedog modded his 125cc PCX to 170cc it was really fast. I have read somewhere in these postings that you can upgrade the 150cc to 170cc but to me that would be under-modding it. Surely they can make a 190cc kit for the 150's, somewhere.

_________________
Currently own:
Two Red 2013 Honda PCX150s

Givi tall windshield and tailbox on both
Lots and lots of extra lights
Custom seats from Thailand
Bad boy Airhorn on each
Takegawa Lowering Shocks on both


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:53 pm 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Mel46 wrote:
So, which bike is it that you have modded for these tests, the 125cc or the 150cc? When Maddiedog modded his 125cc PCX to 170cc it was really fast. I have read somewhere in these postings that you can upgrade the 150cc to 170cc but to me that would be under-modding it. Surely they can make a 190cc kit for the 150's, somewhere.

Hi Mel, it's my original bike, 125cc non esp. I got 150 head on it too from Yuminashi. If you thought Daves was quick, you should see this one then..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:57 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:55 am
Posts: 1109
Mel46 wrote:
So, which bike is it that you have modded for these tests, the 125cc or the 150cc? When Maddiedog modded his 125cc PCX to 170cc it was really fast. I have read somewhere in these postings that you can upgrade the 150cc to 170cc but to me that would be under-modding it. Surely they can make a 190cc kit for the 150's, somewhere.

There's now a 175cc kit for the 125 from Yuminashi, and 175cc kits have been around for the 150 for a while.
If you search really hard you can find custom Yuminashi kits sold by other parties with 186cc or thereabouts.
I was told someone might be making a 200cc stroker kit some day, but who knows, it might not ever happen?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:15 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:55 am
Posts: 1109
Mel46 wrote:
Surely they can make a 190cc kit for the 150's, somewhere.

Here is a 184cc stroker kit for the 125 rebranded by MadMax - https://japan.webike.net/products/21377709.html
RZRacing in Europe used to sell a 190cc kit, for the 125 only I presume? So, they've made bigger kits for the 125 at least.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:46 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Exhaust wrap done today. Did it for visual effect. Did make it bit quieter and the muffler has bit more base..


Attachments:
IMG_1374.JPG
IMG_1374.JPG [ 1.49 MiB | Viewed 383 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:48 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Here is another one


Attachments:
IMG_1375.JPG
IMG_1375.JPG [ 1.76 MiB | Viewed 383 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:49 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
And transmition cover blacked out in plasti dip. I like it because it's not permanent.


Attachments:
IMG_1373.JPG
IMG_1373.JPG [ 1.68 MiB | Viewed 383 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:25 am 
Offline
Regular User
Regular User

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:08 am
Posts: 274
Year: 2014
Color: Black
chicaboo wrote:
Mel46 wrote:
So, which bike is it that you have modded for these tests, the 125cc or the 150cc? When Maddiedog modded his 125cc PCX to 170cc it was really fast. I have read somewhere in these postings that you can upgrade the 150cc to 170cc but to me that would be under-modding it. Surely they can make a 190cc kit for the 150's, somewhere.

There's now a 175cc kit for the 125 from Yuminashi, and 175cc kits have been around for the 150 for a while.
If you search really hard you can find custom Yuminashi kits sold by other parties with 186cc or thereabouts.
I was told someone might be making a 200cc stroker kit some day, but who knows, it might not ever happen?

Stroker = better torque, not better top speed if you do not take into account the rod ratio effect.
Plus 175cc don't fit on the first 125 pcx. Bore in the crankcase too small. Will have to over bore the crankcase.
Stroker sounds nice until you get into welding stuffs onto the crankshaft, truing it etc. I'm actually doing one stroker PCX, 62mm piston and +7mm stroke, a total of 195cc. I use a 112mm connecting rod to keep the 1.72 rod ratio which I think is perfect for high rpm power making. I will be sure to post pictures of that project, should be available once I got the rod arrived in from Japan. Stay tuned.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:12 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
this is a good comparison what will stock 150 with performance exhaust put out at the wheel on the dyno...11.1hp

have a look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWenqFNF_B0


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:56 pm 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Another interesting comparison is Yamaha Nmax bbk 180cc dyno test result. Nmax has much better head set up utilising 4v.. go to 10:06 seconds in the video for the dyno graph result

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ypP35tLbrA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:08 am 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Yamaha BWS 155cc dyno run!!

https://youtu.be/2aSpdn4G6Jo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:02 am 
Offline
Regular User
Regular User

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:49 am
Posts: 100
Location: Swindon UK
Year: 2012
Color: Silver
Pcxdemon wrote:
Another interesting comparison is Yamaha Nmax bbk 180cc dyno test result. Nmax has much better head set up utilising 4v.. go to 10:06 seconds in the video for the dyno graph result

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ypP35tLbrA

Clever design. Everything done with engine still in the frame. Unlike bloody pcx. It doesn't seem he had anything done to fueling system. With 4v head dual disc brakes with abs n max looks like better candidate for performance upgrades.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
Offline
Regular User
Regular User

Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:20 am
Posts: 110
Location: Siberia
They adjust fuel using dealer's scanner tool, Yamaha allows to adjust fueling +-15% as I know, so no any fuel piggyback ecu is needed. I asked one ebay bbk seller why you don't supply any fuel controller with the Yamaha big bore kit. He told me to use Yamaha diagnostic tool also. But, +15% is still lean for 180cc and the fuel curve is not perfect, but they don't care.
Yamaha N-max and Yamaha aerox are great scooters, with better stock suspension, better engine comparing to pcx. But Honda spare and tuning parts market is way larger than Yamahas, at least here where do I live.
Pcxdemon, congratulations with a very good result! My pcx190 shown near 15.5 whp on the dynojet, as I remember. Not 20 as promiced, but I was happy with that bike anyway. I sold my pcx and that project is over..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dyno Run Pcx 169cc
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:33 pm 
Offline
Official Moderator
Official Moderator

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am
Posts: 834
Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Reaper wrote:
They adjust fuel using dealer's scanner tool, Yamaha allows to adjust fueling +-15% as I know, so no any fuel piggyback ecu is needed. I asked one ebay bbk seller why you don't supply any fuel controller with the Yamaha big bore kit. He told me to use Yamaha diagnostic tool also. But, +15% is still lean for 180cc and the fuel curve is not perfect, but they don't care.
Yamaha N-max and Yamaha aerox are great scooters, with better stock suspension, better engine comparing to pcx. But Honda spare and tuning parts market is way larger than Yamahas, at least here where do I live.
Pcxdemon, congratulations with a very good result! My pcx190 shown near 15.5 whp on the dynojet, as I remember. Not 20 as promiced, but I was happy with that bike anyway. I sold my pcx and that project is over..


Thanks Reaper.. Since the Dyno day,I've modified the 35mm TB by tapering it on intake side. By doing that,I've eliminated the huge step down or a lip and air turbulence as air entered the TB :geek: . At the same time I've cleaned up and enlarged slightly a Chameleon IM then I've matched the original 125 plastic insulator :ugeek: . That gave me increase in performance by 10% at least.... :) At that stage i knew that the head intake port needed slight enlarging as it had a lip so i wanted to match that to everything else and i thought there was more to be gained. Once i started dremeling and enlarging the port opening to match the insulator i continued inside the port,taking out some more metal.I didnt go to crazy on the inside of the port as i was worried of dremeling too much and having a point of no return with adverse affects. I took the scoot for a run and i found i lost midrange torque but also have shifted my peak hp up slightly close to 9k rpm,aaah the point of no return... :cry: :roll: I couldn't live with that so all sort of ideas started flowing thru my head how to go back 1 step where i was earlier..Getting a new head was an option..then i thought to reuse 31mm TB insulator to narrow the head port opening and force the air speed thru it bit quicker. The 31mm insulator is 150 part so i knew thats the right size hole i wanted back,the only thing was now that the IM was larger slightly,the insulator would have a lip and that would cause air turbulence as air transitioned from IM in to the head port. Then i decided to tapper the insulator downwards between the O-seal and its diameter hole,creating a small funnel effect and smooth air transition in to the port. I had nothing to loose and it was my last and only attempt to claw back what i had lost. The results were phenomenal, the torque had returned but in vengeance this time and i gained more on top of what i had gained 1 step
earlier... Id say that id have bit more on the dyno now then the last run. That was lucky save and a great result at the end :o . Lesson is 150 port sizes are fine and to be left alone.. :| :oops:

Also while we're at it, i tried using a 150 cooling fan on a 125 non esp model. 150 fan is a lot bigger so i thought as anyone else would too that better cooling would ensue from just replacing the fans. However the 150 fan has a reverse air flow fins so instead of sucking the air thru the rad from outside meant it would be pushing the air outwards thru the rad itself. Tests showed that the engine on idle was overheating and whilst riding the engine temps were maintained higher by 3 to 4c degrees. Fan only costed me $10 from Partzilla so it was a worth while experiment. I don't know if esp motors have redesigned crank case cooling where it would allow this fan to be more efficient but on the V1 Pcx it was a no go...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Like what you see here? Buy the admin a beer! Donate at the link below:

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!