is less really more?

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homie
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is less really more?

Post by homie »

Grumblings from the faithful... here are some interesting complaints from our fellow American bikers that I found worthy of thought. I might have to sympathize with the yearn (less is more). As we make our daily two wheeled conquest for the freedom of the road do we really need all this stuff?

There is no question that the bikes of today beat the bikes of just 20 years ago in a lot of ways, but some people don't want ABS, or infotainment, or even fuel injection. The more features you add to a bike, the heavier and more complicated it gets. The hard core faithful call these sorts of bikes "Circus Wagons," and proceed to fill several garbage cans full of the stuff they didn't need when building an out of a factory bike. Here's a little list that sprung out of a forum thread about current and future improvements, which revealed many bikers think less is more.

1. Big Tanks
Every bike comes with a big fat tank that holds nearly 5 gallons. The small style tank makes the bike look totally different, and meaner. Changing to a smaller tank used to be no problem back in the days of carburetors, all you have to do is figure how to mount is and reroute the fuel line. These days you need to be sure to get a tank that can hold the EFI pump and filter, then relocated everything mounted on the center of the tank, like the ignition switch. Come on, give us a real stripped down bobber we can buy from the factory!

2. Return the Springer
You just can't beat the classic look of a springer. Rumor has it that you can't get the ABS brakes to work with the sprung leading link front suspension, but why should that stop them from offering it? Sure, it is nice to have ABS sometimes, but guys have been riding for 100 years before ABS was even an option. Let the hard core guys looking for the ultimate retro look have their springer. You know a factory engineered setup is going to work better, with or without ABS, then a backyard modification.

3. Anti ABS Brakes
Some people like the added safety of anti-lock brakes, and some people see them as the first intrusion of the nanny state into their riding. Some argue that it is seamless and invisible, so why not have it in case you need it. After all, what is another 10lbs of hardware on a bike that weighs over 600lbs already? But some of us like to modify our bikes with different sized wheels and tires, taller handlebars, extended front ends, or even upgraded brake discs and calipers. You could just pull off all the ABS hardware and re-plumb the bike the old way, but then you have to deal with the computer giving you error messages. Offer ABS as an option on everything (maybe make it a dealer installed option?), but let the riders decide. Don't let the ABS dictate what we can or can't do to our bikes.

4. Without all the Electronics
The first Electra Glides got that name because they had a novel feature; an electric starter, but it now incorporates more electronics than the Apollo moon missions had at their disposal. Why not offer a stripped down touring model with all the bags and weather protection, but without all the gee-gaws and gizmos? It would be nice if it were lighter and cost less as a result as well. Make it a Road Glide for the people who actually want to get out there and see the road.

5. Foolproof Fueling
It may be wishful thinking, and it may just be us older guys showing our age, but why do we need complicated electronic fuel injection and throttle by wire? A carburetor is a mechanical computer that uses gravity, physics and geometry to deliver the correct amount of fuel for a given amount of air, and throttle opening. It really is elegant in its simplicity, and easy to diagnose when something goes wrong. If your throttle by wire, or some computer sensor fails, your bike is dead and there is no simple fix that will get you home. I suppose that is the price we pay for clean air, and bikes that start, hot or cold, in the mountains or at the beach, with just the push of a button.

6. Lose the Juice Clutch
Use a simple, mechanical, cable operated clutch, our hands are not so weak we need hydraulic assistance. Again, the hydraulic setup doesn't add much weight to an already heavy bike, but it is this few ounces here, few ounces there weight gain that has lead to "stripped down" Dyna Glides weighing over 700lbs, and touring bikes weighing 800lbs, or more.

7. Liquid Cooling
The writing is on the wall, air cooling is no longer enough to keep these motors within emissions regulations. Perhaps oil cooling could have been tried, like the old Porsche 911 air cooled motors, or perhaps it was tried in the R & D department and wasn't good enough? At least the Street 500 and 750 give us some idea of how well a water cooled motor can be integrated but it is going to get much harder to modify them.


I think its time for kit bikes! The reason some pilots build their own planes, get back to basics. Screw emissions testing and government regulation with all that bulk and BS. WE RIDE!!!! :lol:
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Re: is less really more?

Post by iceman »

For most people are there really any negatives with regard ABS and electronic fuel injection? Both work wonders and I'd take them over the old standard any day - one gives extra protection if you brake suddenly and the other helps keep the bikes running well. The only advantage for more basic mechanical vehicles is that it's easier to fix for those mechanically minded over the new cramped and processor controlled engines with manufacuter expensive parts.
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Re: is less really more?

Post by Mel46 »

The one negative I. An say about the older bikes is that in the winter the carb would not cooperate. I don't know how many times I had a problem starting my bikes. I haven't had that problem with the fuel injection bikes.

Also, I once owned a bike that had a kick starter. It was a bear when it was cold, so the electric starter is a great improvement. I know that they still have kick starters on the two stroke engines, but the bigger bikes, like one of my old Harleys, would kick me back if I didn't do it correctly...and in the winter it just would not start if it was left outside.
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Re: is less really more?

Post by Lafree »

Hi Homie which side of the fence do you sit ? , in the UK the Honda cub/ innova Chinese copy have been withdrawn from sale because with a carb they don't meet emission standards but in the far East there are millions, water cooled engines that run at a constant temp are more efficient and last longer so for me an improvement. Lafree
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Re: is less really more?

Post by homie »

Good points people, I guess it depends if you are of the kind that really like to take things apart or build custom. I wonder how Orange County Chopper (OCC) custom shop is able to get around emissions? http://www.orangecountychoppers.com/

Lafree... I like to be able to do stuff to my bikes as it allows me to take advantage of used equipment at greatly depreciated prices. Brother if you don't have to go to the shop for service and repair and a service manual is all you need parts are dirt cheap on the net. But if they make them so complex the SM is no help I'm out of luck. This little Honda isn't that bad yet :)
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Re: is less really more?

Post by alx123 »

I used to play with my old carb bike a lot. I love how i can tune my bike by modifying my carb jets, camshafts, valves sizes, etc.

Now, with EFI, ECU I don't even know how to fix my bike anymore.

But I am not complaining, I will adjust on what the world offers. Technology is great, it make our life easier.

I love that abs make us safer, efi with almost perfect combustion..etc

Maybe I will not modify the scoot like I used to, but that will not stop me from enjoying the ride.
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Re: is less really more?

Post by chicaboo »

And what is with this full face helmet craze? When a leather cap, scarf and goggles are already clearly more than you need.
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Re: is less really more?

Post by homie »

chicaboo wrote:And what is with this full face helmet craze? When a leather cap, scarf and goggles are already clearly more than you need.
I knew there was something missing... what color?
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Re: is less really more?

Post by chicaboo »

Homie, you're so reckless, you're going to get a chill without your scarf!
For the scarf I think you should stick with the classic off-white, bone, ivory, caramel or beige.
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