Help on tuning. Really confused

Cosmetic accessories, comfort accessories, windshields, luggage racks, etc.

Moderator: Modsquad

kotsio83
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:28 am
Year: 2016
Color: white

Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by kotsio83 »

Hi all,

I currently own a 2016 honda forza. i am on the break-in period but soon i will reach the 1k mark. I was looking at the various threads but got really confused. So what do i need to do so i get better acceleration and maybe same or better top speed. Thanks in advance
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

There are lots of mechanical mods but quite frankly they probably only give minor improvements. The Forza is basically a 250cc scooter. If you really want acceleration go buy a one litre sport bike.

You can gain acceleration by losing weight. I had a friend who was into bicycle racing. He cut one inch of titanium off of his seat post to lighten the bike. I told him he could lose more weight by going to the bathroom.

The other way to gain acceleration is by improving the aerodynamics. I live in a windy place and notice a huge difference if I am going upwind or downwind. A full racing tuck probably is equal to all the mechanical bs that some people spout on the internet. A tall windscreen also helps the aero.

A lot of the so called tuning that is reported on the internet is bs. The improvements are really minor or even psychological. Some people are plain liars.

So this begs the question, Why do you want better acceleration? Slow down, enjoy the ride, life is short. Peace.
User avatar
gn2
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
Posts: 7767
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Year: None
Location: NE Scotland

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by gn2 »

kotsio83 wrote:what do i need to do so i get better acceleration and maybe same or better top speed.
Get a 400cc scooter.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
kotsio83
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:28 am
Year: 2016
Color: white

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by kotsio83 »

Well i already have a big bike. I own a yamaha fz6 s2. Just want to improve the performance by a bit.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

It's a scooter, what part of that don't you understand?








It is what it is.







There is more to life than fast motorcycles and women.
User avatar
E. Foster Salsbury
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:42 pm
Year: 2015 NSS300A
Location: Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by E. Foster Salsbury »

kotsio83.
Have you read the 384 posts here?.... http://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f ... tuning+cvt
Salsbury
2015 Forza 300ABS-2km 10/17/2015
kotsio83
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:28 am
Year: 2016
Color: white

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by kotsio83 »

Just to clarify some things. I am not looking to make the bike a rocket, as i said i already own a big bike. What i am interested of doing is, just to make it a little bit faster so it can manage highway speeds for long time. So my main goal is not race. if i want to race i take my big bike and take it to the track. i am a member of a motorcycle club, that does a lot of trips e.t.c. and i just want to keep up at speeds of 120-130 without the need to struggle.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

It is a small bike with small tires. Those speeds are always going to be a struggle BUT I do them all the time anyway.

What country are you in?

How much do you weigh and how tall? I weigh 190 lbs but my 5 foot 6 is not much wind resistance and I have to tuck a bit to reach the handle bars with my short arms.

The 49cc guys are the silliest who try make a small bike faster. Most of them only succeed by upping the displacement and riding motorcycles that are bigger than their license allows. They also lie to their insurance companies and license plate issuers. Their tires are also not rated for the speeds they do.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

I think Honda should be charged with fraud because they state that the Forza is highway capable with a passenger. It is capable on minor highways but not on US Interstates nor on BC mountain highways. They lied.
User avatar
E. Foster Salsbury
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:42 pm
Year: 2015 NSS300A
Location: Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by E. Foster Salsbury »

gn2 wrote:Get a 400cc scooter.
kotsio83 wrote:i just want to keep up at speeds of 120-130 without the need to struggle.
As usual, gn2 is right.
A 279cc single is going to be almost maxed out at 130km/h
Salsbury
2015 Forza 300ABS-2km 10/17/2015
User avatar
Oyabun
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 pm
Year: `12,`15,`19
Color: black&black
Location: Europe

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by Oyabun »

E. Foster Salsbury wrote:
gn2 wrote:Get a 400cc scooter.
kotsio83 wrote:i just want to keep up at speeds of 120-130 without the need to struggle.
As usual, gn2 is right.
A 279cc single is going to be almost maxed out at 130km/h
Pardon my french, but this is a very usual generalistic cr*p.
A CBR300R is also a single with 286cc and reaches 160kmph and cruises @130 all day long.

For the OP. Check out Mario's posts about his experience with the Jcosta variator and potentially write a PM to him as he was not participating recently.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

Yep if you shift the gears you can get those speeds but a CVT is slower. You can "tune" it a bit but it is all a compromise. A CBR300R weighs 364 pounds and a Forza weighs 428 pounds or 64 pounds heavier. You can do the tuning thing but it will cost you mpg and reliability. You usually lose some acceleration to gain more on the top end. The CBR is more aerodynamic but it is not a scooter with luggage space.

These tuning conversations are almost as full of bs as an oil conversation but we all know my Dodge truck is the very best period.

I have seen all of this before, I am going back to bed, have fun.
User avatar
Oyabun
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 pm
Year: `12,`15,`19
Color: black&black
Location: Europe

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by Oyabun »

Well, if you know a little bit of physics you also know that weight is not a factor in determining level speed. It is all about available propelling power overcoming drag ( some linear rolling friction, but mainly air drag). And with the proper gearing (in this case a variator) a scooter is not much worst than a geared bike.
And while the CBR is more aerodynamic than a scooter, but a faired scooter like the forza is still more aerodynamic than a naked cb300f which is fact is still effortlessly cruising at 130 just reaching a tad lower top speed than a cbr.
As I said consult with Mario. He has reached GPS corfirmed 144km/h and seems to cruise nicely and very stable at 120.
User avatar
gn2
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
Posts: 7767
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Year: None
Location: NE Scotland

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by gn2 »

Oyabun wrote:A CBR300R is also a single with 286cc and reaches 160kmph and cruises @130 all day long.
CBR300 is faster than the Forza because it has a higher revving more powerful engine coupled to a more efficient transmission.

A CVT scooter is slower than a manual chain drive bike of equivalent capacity and power due to frictional losses in the CVT being significantly higher than the losses in a conventional chain drive.

If you want to carry a specific load at a specific speed comfortably its important to select the right vehicle.
A Forza 300 is a medium range commuter, nothing more.
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
User avatar
Oyabun
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:24 pm
Year: `12,`15,`19
Color: black&black
Location: Europe

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by Oyabun »

gn2 wrote:
Oyabun wrote:A CBR300R is also a single with 286cc and reaches 160kmph and cruises @130 all day long.
CBR300 is faster than the Forza because it has a higher revving more powerful engine coupled to a more efficient transmission.

A CVT scooter is slower than a manual chain drive bike of equivalent capacity and power due to frictional losses in the CVT being significantly higher than the losses in a conventional chain drive.

If you want to carry a specific load at a specific speed comfortably its important to select the right vehicle.
A Forza 300 is a medium range commuter, nothing more.
Now we talking finally. I was disappointed be the 300cc generalization - as it is not the limiting factor.

Indeed a CVT transmission has higher losses due to friction than a conventional geared transmission. While a manual transmission has about 97% efficiency a belt driven CVT lands around 89% which is roughly a 8% loss. However the rest of the power train in a scooter is through closed gears while on a motorcycle an open chain drive - the earlier having less losses - resulting in less compound difference between the two. Add the fact that in a fixed gear setting the engine is not operating in the best power or efficiency band quite a lot of the time results in a very balanced situation - and potentially the same cruising capability given that the engines are the same.

On the same note the higher weight and longer wheelbase of the Forza (compared to the CBR) makes it a lot more relaxed at higher speeds.

Marketing positioning is highly different from engineering possibilities. The question of the OP was how to get a bit better acceleration and sligtly higher speeds with the given bike. And the answer is through gearing. A good variator takes care of both.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

I'm back, I have ridden my Forza at 145 kmph. The real question should be is it safe to ride a scooter that fast. I do not think so. I have ridden motorcycles faster than that but I think for a scooter it is too fast. A motorcycle you can grip tightly with your legs but you are barely held on by your arms on a scooter. I hit a large bump at high speed on my scooter and my ass left the seat, I think my feet did also.

The scooter has smaller diameter tires that do not handle road problems as well as a bigger motorcycle.

The engine on a scooter moves around when you hit a bump. That is a lot of mass to control at high speeds.

I did a group charity ride with a bunch of strangers. At first I tried to keep up with the Sport bikes but I quickly realized that these assholes intended to ride substantially over the speed limits. The Forza was maxed out trying to do something stupid. I slowed it down to a more reasonable speed and pulled in to the destination while the sport bike guys were still parking.

Being fast is not always better. Enjoy the ride.

ps I bought the Forza because it was not fast. I was doing very risky riding on a faster motorcycle and decided to be safer.
kotsio83
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:28 am
Year: 2016
Color: white

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by kotsio83 »

when i say tuning i dont mean i want the scooter to go like a rocket. i am looking for something that will make the scooter be more comfortable engine wise at constant 120 km/h for like 30-40 minutes.
User avatar
gn2
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
Posts: 7767
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:54 pm
Year: None
Location: NE Scotland

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by gn2 »

kotsio83 wrote:i am looking for something that will make the scooter be more comfortable engine wise at constant 120 km/h for like 30-40 minutes.
Here you go: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004KIRO3Y/
Four decades on two wheels has taught me nothing, all advice given is guaranteed to be wrong
kotsio83
New Member
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:28 am
Year: 2016
Color: white

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by kotsio83 »

LOL. Engine WISE not NOISe. i just have the idea the going like 120 km/h for 30 minutes will stress the engine.
davenowherejones
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:06 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Silver
Location: Hope, BC, Canada

Re: Help on tuning. Really confused

Post by davenowherejones »

kotsio83 wrote:LOL. Engine WISE not NOISe. i just have the idea the going like 120 km/h for 30 minutes will stress the engine.
I do that all the time with no problems for the last 20,000 km. Now I just want to go slower to put less stress on me.
Post Reply