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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:51 am 
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Good information and it reflects my own experience with the J.Costa.

even if you keep a close eye on the pins and change them out frequently, if you run the Costa at top end (75+ mph) for hours at a stretch,
somewhere around 9000-12000 miles the central bronze bushing is worn down to the point you can do this:

Image

The steel boss does not wear but bronze bushing wears and wallows and it can get sloppy enough to allow the moving face to wobble, which destroys the thrust bell in short order.

again, what the Costa needs is two matching pulley faces (as does any variator worth owning!)....
the front face, the boss and the thrust bell are locked into one piece...
the moving face rotating at a different rate (because of the different pulley face angles) chews the tip of the pins up very fast at higher speeds.

But when one is set up properly with the right weight pins, it is radically fast!
It shows you what your scoot is capable of...something to strive for?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:01 am 
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Btw, the rollers on the pictures are the white ones?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:28 pm 
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ONTWOWHEELS greetings from Italy. I love greece I have been many times
Thank you very much for your report.

R


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Anyone know this variator or have tested it?
R


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:40 am 
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robertinino wrote:
ONTWOWHEELS greetings from Italy. I love greece I have been many times
Thank you very much for your report.

R


Hello robertinino.
I love Italy too and i hope sometime in the fututre to visit an curve in DOLOMITES with my team. ;)
You are welcome!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:43 am 
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BRed wrote:
Good information and it reflects my own experience with the J.Costa.

even if you keep a close eye on the pins and change them out frequently, if you run the Costa at top end (75+ mph) for hours at a stretch,
somewhere around 9000-12000 miles the central bronze bushing is worn down to the point you can do this:

Image

The steel boss does not wear but bronze bushing wears and wallows and it can get sloppy enough to allow the moving face to wobble, which destroys the thrust bell in short order.

again, what the Costa needs is two matching pulley faces (as does any variator worth owning!)....
the front face, the boss and the thrust bell are locked into one piece...
the moving face rotating at a different rate (because of the different pulley face angles) chews the tip of the pins up very fast at higher speeds.

But when one is set up properly with the right weight pins, it is radically fast!
It shows you what your scoot is capable of...something to strive for?


Exactly !
This is the other mutter we can not trust this variator when we hit the road and make 2.000 kms.
We want realibility 100% and not opening CVT on the road.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:44 am 
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Mario wrote:
Btw, the rollers on the pictures are the white ones?

Yes i don't know any other colour.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:48 am 
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Mario wrote:
Arrived :D

Glad that I did go for the latest J.Costa vario, there are clearly more changes than only the blue sliders.

Looks like the bell has a smoother finish.
Image

The older one.
Image

The hole's for the sliders have a smooth finish now.
Image

The older one.
Image

1,3gram lighter than the white one's.
Image

Image

Beautiful bearing with intergraded graphite reservoirs.
Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:53 am 
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robertinino wrote:
Anyone know this variator or have tested it?
R

Much less expensive than J COSTA.
Other owners with other scooter brands have tested and say it's similar to J COSTA but without the problems of it.

BUT i have not seen a full report after 28.000 kms as we did to J COSTA so i can't say for sure.

I can say for sure that the set up i wrote above with OEM variator - 18gr Dr Pulley, DNA filter and ARROW 2 exhaust is very good and reliable 100%.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:57 am 
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Mario wrote:
Mario wrote:
Arrived :D

Glad that I did go for the latest J.Costa vario, there are clearly more changes than only the blue sliders.

Looks like the bell has a smoother finish.
Image

The older one.
Image

The hole's for the sliders have a smooth finish now.
Image

The older one.
Image

1,3gram lighter than the white one's.
Image

Image

Beautiful bearing with intergraded graphite reservoirs.
Image

Image

Image

OK this is the new one as it seems.
Thank you i did not know about it.

So the question now is : did he test it for a long term in so many kms as we did ?
Is he a traveller or a commuter just in the city ?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Only time can tell, but on the BMW C600 and the Yamaha T-Max the latest J.Costa's are very populair.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:09 pm 
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how much it gains forza 300 with Dna filter in accelleration and speed compared to the original?
R


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:26 am 
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Mario wrote:
Only time can tell, but on the BMW C600 and the Yamaha T-Max the latest J.Costa's are very populair.

They are indeed.
Yoy are right. Unfortunatelly i do not know any scooter traveller to have it on.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:05 am 
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robertinino wrote:
how much it gains forza 300 with Dna filter in accelleration and speed compared to the original?
R

I don't know about FORZA but the SH 300 gains only money you do not spend to buy OEM filter (every 6.000 kms in Athens and i believe to every big city) because the only thing you have to do is to clean it every 10-12.000 kms BUT if you put DNA with an ARROW REFLEX and Dr Pulley 18 gr you have much better acceleration from 0 to top speed and top speed increases 5 to 10 kms depending on the wind etc.

If you put 17 gr Dr Pulley or 16 the start from traffic lights is wonderfull but you might (especially with the 16) loose a bit of top speed.

Above conclusions came out with a street legal ARRO REFLEX with thw silencer ON.
If the silencer is of you might lose something in low rpm but to high rpm acceleration is much more better and the noise is bass and not annoying.

I have silencer on.



Comparison OEM to DNA :

Image

DNA after installation :

Image

Dirty DNA :

Image

After cleaning -oiling :

Image

See the following video of a recent 1.000+ ride and notice the acceleration after curving and so. Notice the mirror. The bike in front is a YAMAHA FAZER 600 97HP Full OHLINS, the same behind me and the last is an APRILIA CAPONORD 1.000. I manage to travel with my fiends without causing any delay to them :


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:13 am 
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thank you very much ONTWOWHEELS for your explications and videos, they are great!
when I saw those videos I tried excitement because they remember me the streets and landscapes of Greece. Every years on holiday I rented a scooter and ride many kilometers ....in Kos, Crete, Rodi, skiatos, schopelos, Zante, Myconos ecc......
Your sh 300 looks nices and very similar in performance to MARIO forza's..... What I like is that you can ride expecially in mix streets like big bikes!
At the moment I mount original variator with 17 grams dr pulley and what you say is correct I loose a little in top speed and thinking that the original speed of my forza is 130/135 is not a great result, but I like accelleration......very much
Next step will be try the combo mix solution of BRED or 24x18 but at the moment we don't know the right grams....
Yes for DNA Filter, No for ARROW REFLEX at the moment , because i like the original shape and the little little noise, sometimes my forza's closing the throttle seem to be an electric scooter.

ciao
Robert


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:33 am 
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robertinino wrote:
thank you very much ONTWOWHEELS for your explications and videos, they are great!
when I saw those videos I tried excitement because they remember me the streets and landscapes of Greece. Every years on holiday I rented a scooter and ride many kilometers ....in Kos, Crete, Rodi, skiatos, schopelos, Zante, Myconos ecc......
Your sh 300 looks nices and very similar in performance to MARIO forza's..... What I like is that you can ride expecially in mix streets like big bikes!
At the moment I mount original variator with 17 grams dr pulley and what you say is correct I loose a little in top speed and thinking that the original speed of my forza is 130/135 is not a great result, but I like accelleration......very much
Next step will be try the combo mix solution of BRED or 24x18 but at the moment we don't know the right grams....
Yes for DNA Filter, No for ARROW REFLEX at the moment , because i like the original shape and the little little noise, sometimes my forza's closing the throttle seem to be an electric scooter.

ciao
Robert


You are welcome Robert.

We have already tryed the mixed solution and we didn't like it. :roll:

Max speed of SH 300 is 152 km measured by gps or 156 on the clock (electronic limiter).
I can travel the highways constantly with stable velocity of 130-140.

Yoy are right about the exchaust.
It makes noise but not so bad.
But if it's compared to OEM it's noisy for sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:10 pm 
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what kind of mix solution did you tried?
what didn't you like?
Also Mario didn't like mix solution, but Bred said tha was because the forza was new and didn't made enought kilometers.
Bred say that is the best solution.
Do you think that dr pulley 18 gr at place of 17 gr guarantess a better final top speed , maybe 5 km?... but loose in accelleration ,maybe 1 second?
Last question. 0-100 km with your sh 300 is less than 10 seconds?
R


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:10 pm 
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robertinino wrote:
what kind of mix solution did you tried?
what didn't you like?
Also Mario didn't like mix solution, but Bred said tha was because the forza was new and didn't made enought kilometers.
Bred say that is the best solution.
Do you think that dr pulley 18 gr at place of 17 gr guarantess a better final top speed , maybe 5 km?... but loose in accelleration ,maybe 1 second?
Last question. 0-100 km with your sh 300 is less than 10 seconds?
R


ΟΕΜ of different grs, OEM with Dr Pulley, Malossi (not mixed) etc, it's been a long time now and i do not recall exactly.
We have a fellow member in our forum he has tried almost everything.
What we did not like was the acceleration and some strange noise.

Something else which gives power is POLLINI variator and Malossi with Dr Pulley rollers (my next modification if the OEM variator is out of service limits).

Any modification must be done after 6.000 kms when the engine has been runned in completely.

18grs Dr Pulley give better acceleration but i haven't measured if i am under or above 10 seconds.

With 18 grs you will have a little bit better final top speed and very good acceleration.
With 17 grs you will have better acceleration and the same top speed (perhaps i haven't tried them yet but i wiil perhaps next time, the ony thing i do not want is to push hard the engine up to the limits because i do long trips).

Dr Pulley recommeds to put 10-15% lower grs than OEM.
An example : ΟΕΜ are 23x18, 19 grs.Based to Dr Pulley recommendation we should go directly to 17 at least but you will never know if you don't try them all.
Untill now i have tried :
-19 grs and see a video with oem rollers and 19 grs to understand better (image is not good, sorry for that):
[youtube]6-MOx2rY9lc#t=45[/youtube]
Better than OEM but not enough
-20 grs i did not like it at all. I took them off after 2.000 kms
-18 grs i like them but with the excaust and the filter.

Dr Pulley have a plus advantage.
They are good after 30-32.000 kms+.OEM are good up to 18.000 kms so they are economical too.

Next time i will change to 17grs and we shall see what comes up but it' gonna be late because i have only 12.000 kms with them.

Hope i helped.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:17 pm 
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one thing to keep in mind, Robert...

SH300i Final reduction 8.571

NSS300 Final reduction 7.537

and they have different sized wheels.

so all other things being equal (tire diameters, variator config, belt condition, exhaust mods and rider), the SH300i should STILL outrun the Forza in a 0-60 run or a drag race....its geared for more bottom end

one would hope that given enough road (and time?) we would eventually catch him but even that is speculation, until someone actually does it? :)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:09 am 
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BRed you are right.

That's what i said right from the beginning, cvt is the same but i don't know if the modifications we did to SH are good for the FORZA too because of all this you mentioned and i will add the hp - torque - weight too.
FORZA : SH 300 (UNTILL 2014)
26 hp/7.500 rpm 27,2/8.500
26/5.000 rpm 26/6.000
192 kgr 170Kgr

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