Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

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Mario
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

Fastest and final setup.

J.Costa variateur -JC646FSEVO3- with blue 12,5g sliders/rollers
Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold
DNA Air-filter
Original Honda clutch
TechPulley compression spring 15%
Heidenau K66 Rear tyre 150/70-13 -little bigger than standard-
Speedo meter 2% accurate

May the Forza be with you!!
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sendler2112
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by sendler2112 »

Great documentaion as usual but it is hard to see the difference of the clutch since you editted the video to start so close to the launch. A few seconds of idling and then the launch would let us see the differences in how the different clutches perform at the initial take off.
Too bad we can't get rid of that initial lag that the fuel computer puts in to every launch as a way of taking it easy on the clutch and making the bike easier to control around parking lots. The first .8 seconds sounds like it is half power. The PCX does the same thing.
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

Thanks sendler :)

With the editing software I looked picture by picture (50 FPS) to see when the bike starts moving, thats precisely the start of the video so the time line is the same as the results 0-20 > 0-120 that I picket from the time line, the same I did with the previous video with the TechPulley clutch installed.

Next thing I good do is instal a Rapid Bike Evo ECU (500 Euro in total) and let it tune on a dynamometer but I think I save me the money and put it in my piggy bank for a new to buy Honda Integra 750 ;)

sendler2112 wrote:Great documentaion as usual but it is hard to see the difference of the clutch since you editted the video to start so close to the launch. A few seconds of idling and then the launch would let us see the differences in how the different clutches perform at the initial take off.
Too bad we can't get rid of that initial lag that the fuel computer puts in to every launch as a way of taking it easy on the clutch and making the bike easier to control around parking lots. The first .8 seconds sounds like it is half power. The PCX does the same thing.
May the Forza be with you!!
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

Mario wrote:Fastest and final setup.

J.Costa variateur -JC646FSEVO3- with blue 12,5g sliders/rollers
Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold
DNA Air-filter
Original Honda clutch
TechPulley compression spring 15%
Heidenau K66 Rear tyre 150/70-13 -little bigger than standard-
Speedo meter 2% accurate

thank you very much Mario for everything you share with us
Robert
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

Your welkom Robert :)

May I ask what your setup is now on your Forza and what the results are?

Br, Mario
robertinino wrote:
Mario wrote:Fastest and final setup.

J.Costa variateur -JC646FSEVO3- with blue 12,5g sliders/rollers
Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold
DNA Air-filter
Original Honda clutch
TechPulley compression spring 15%
Heidenau K66 Rear tyre 150/70-13 -little bigger than standard-
Speedo meter 2% accurate

thank you very much Mario for everything you share with us
Robert
May the Forza be with you!!
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

Mario I'm still use the 17 dr pulley sliders on original variator.
Thinking to try:
1 new variator, like J costa or malossi!
2 the new bred suggestion: 24x18 6 sliders but at the moment I don't know the right weight 19-17 grams??

About jcosta I like to know just using 12,5 grams pins how will be the performance!
Robert
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

Robert, performance you can see in the above video, top speed is still +140km/h (GPS)
robertinino wrote:Mario I'm still use the 17 dr pulley sliders on original variator.
Thinking to try:
1 new variator, like J costa or malossi!
2 the new bred suggestion: 24x18 6 sliders but at the moment I don't know the right weight 19-17 grams??

About jcosta I like to know just using 12,5 grams pins how will be the performance!
Robert
May the Forza be with you!!
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

Mario
i mean honda forza 300 all original changing just j costa variator, without Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold, DNA Air-filter TechPulley compression spring 15%.....
R
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

Aha, well the proof is in the pudding ;)
robertinino wrote:Mario
i mean honda forza 300 all original changing just j costa variator, without Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold, DNA Air-filter TechPulley compression spring 15%.....
R
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

bred
do you find the right grams for 2418 sliders?
Robert
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

b red do you know these flying tech pulley?
R
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

b red
this is what you wrote one year ago.... "In that particular size of rollers (23x18), Honda has two diameters.....
23x18 used in the FES250, PS250 and NSS250 (and NSS300)
24x18 used in the CN250 and CH250
There's less than 1mm difference in the diameter and the two sizes are usually considered interchangeable, with one caveat.....
the 24x18 starts you off in a slightly HIGHER low gear than the 23x18.
If you're running all 6 sliders, you may want to go with the taller (24x18) sliders to avoid lowering your starting gear ratio...............

As I try 23x18 17 grams. Running 24x18 sliders 17 grams at place of 23x18 17 grams what are the differences in performance? Is it possible have the same good accelleration but better top end?... or do you think is better try 24x18 in other different grams? (like 18 or 19)
thank you
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by homie »

is it tuned yet?
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

23x18 17 grams dr pulley
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by BRed »

Hi Robert!
I haven't had a chance to try light weight sliders in the 24x18 range yet but I think 17 or 18 gram should be right...
6 17G 24x18 will turn about 200 rpm lower at most speeds than 6 17g 23x18 sliders.

I'm still running the slider/roller mix and they're doing fine, but when I tried all 6 20G sliders together they were very close to stock in performance...
similar to 6 21 gram rollers, except very torquey at bottom end and a little faster 0-60mph. You won't like it.

I'd love to try those exotic weights pictured above but don't have a local source...
occasionally someone does come up with a better shape for these things (usually DR Pulley!)

Robert, tell us what you like most and dislike most about the 6 17G sliders you're using now ( I've run that setup as well)...
things like fuel mileage, acceleration and engine revs?


I think it would be helpful to others considering CVT mods and might help in selecting the right setup for you.

and for Homie....no, it's never tuned!

I know of a Ruckus with a 400cc engine and Big Ruckus with a 600cc Silverwing engine to attest to the fact that for some, tuning is never finished! :)
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

I think that 24x18 sliders are a little more taller than 23x18 and this means that have more force to lift the thrust plate
Sliders give a shift point and top end rpm roughly equal to rollers that are two grams lighter.... that could be compensed by 24x18 that rev 200 rpm less than 23x18 (seams to be like 19 grams dr pulley)
Considering that dr pulley in 23x18 sliders suggest a weight of 10-15% less than the original rollers, this means 3 grams less 21-3 grams = 18 grams seems to be the right weight. Why everyone including me use 17 grams I don't know!!
Now the problem is: what I tested, 17 grams dr pulley sliders are very good in accelleration about 10 seconds 0-60 miles / 0-100 km but loosing after 100 km in top speed, but in this is video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhNfI5PvR-g a burgman 400 showing a comparison between original stock rollers and 17 grams sliders and what I said seem to be denied!!
maximum acceleration while retaining maximum topend, all these while using lowest rpm and the minimum of fuel on a variator that will last forever is a dream or 24x18 dr pulley sliders could be the right solution??
I think in this way, and thinking about everything, without instrument for testing I belive 18 grams 24x18 will be the best solution!!!
What do you think?

ciao
Robert
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by BRed »

Robert that's the big problem with comparing tuning efforts from different sized scoots with different HP ratings and different variators using different weights....
the Burgman makes a lot more HP and it uses 8 26 x13 rollers that in stock form are probably pretty close to the 17G weight used in the video.

so he reduced his total weight less than 10%?

The 23x18 variators are the only ones that are close enough to another standard size (24x18) to allow interchange of almost 2mm range in roller diameter sizing.


You're seeing the same issue with light sliders on an Interstate capable scoot that most complain about....
when you get the 0-60 time down where you want it, now it takes you 5 miles and/or 5 minutes to reach that last 10mph of top speed.

You have not tried a slider/roller mix yet, right?
If you have at least 2500 miles on your scoot, you should really try it once?

I have Veypor runs and graphs of everything down to 14G rollers x 6 in the 23x18 range....
I even graphed what's called the K-mod on a Reflex, which is retain the 3 31G rollers in the long tracks of the variator and toss the 3 21G rollers in the short tracks for a total weight of 93G with 3 rollers.

The dual tracks of the US Reflex and JDM Forza 1 (3 long tracks and 3 short tracks with different weights for each track) was one of the first glimmers that inspired me to try mixed weights in a standard variator.

I'm just getting started on the 2418 sliders...more as I learn it! :)
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by robertinino »

Hi B Red
I didn't try combo mix jet! but I want do it I have enough kilometer (miles) on my forza. Mario was not satisfied when he tried combo mix but is forza was quite new..
Now mario with this set up: J.Costa variateur -JC646FSEVO3- with blue 12,5g sliders/rollers, Arrow Reflex 2.0 exhaust + race manifold DNA Air-filter, TechPulley compression spring 15% accellerate in less the 10 seconds and have a top speed of a little more than 140 km....

Bred with your combo mix combination you have similar performance than Mario, so I'll like to try 19/15 or 16 grams combo mix.......also if I'm quite sure that 24x18 sliders will be better in the right size..... but I don't know where to start with experiment.!
thank you bred
ciao
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by ONTWOWHEELS »

Ηι, sorry i don't own a FORZA but SH 300 R SPORT ABS/CBS.
Although the different model the engine and the trsansmission are the same so i can tell you for sure the following :

1.J COSTA variator is very good and has great acceleration but it must be checked every 6.000 km .
In one we tried - tested the rollers lasted for 18.000 km for the first time but the second in almost 11.000 km the rollers failed and damaged the bell.
See some photos to unterstund what i mean :
Image

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Image

Image

Image

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2. In my opinion the best (and economical) improvement you can make without having any headacke and worries and i have now this improvement on my own SH 300 which i use for commuting and travelling from 500 up to 1.800 km untill now are :
-DNA filter
-ARROW REFLEX 2 exhaust
-Dr Pulley rollers 18 gr.
-NEWFREN clutch
Great realibility with very good acceleration and consumption.
If you want greater acceleration just go to 17gr rollers Dr Pulley of corse.
Check of the above as OEM program of maintenance . ;)
HONDA PCX 125 /2015 - HONDA PCX 150/2016
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Re: Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

Post by Mario »

The J.Costa is a great vario, BUT!! You must realise that because of the increased pulley range the first km the belt is rubbing the provide bussing with as result rubber debris in the bearing that will reuen it, so cleaning a few times in the beginning is essential.
May the Forza be with you!!
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