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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:27 pm 
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So I just installed the 17gr and 19gr slider mix, and my initial impression is that it is alot more responsive. I also did a timed 0-60 run ( same run twice before and after) and it appears to have shaved off about 1.7 seconds off the 0-60. The engine now revs more freely up to 6500 rpm, and the acceleration is much improved in the higher speeds. Top speed doesn't see to be affected, but I have not tried to max it yet.
The only thing I have noticed so far is that the initial off the line (maybe the first meter) it has slightly less grunt, previously I was able to power slide and at times mini burn out off the line, but I don't seem to do that any more, which is better and safer. As for fuel economy, well I have only done about 50KM SO far, but the trip computer after being reset is actually now marking about 1km per litre better than previously which is impressive. I am going to keep testing and let them wear in and see how a prolonged test works out, but so far it is recommended from my end to any one :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Atabone wrote:
So I just installed the 17gr and 19gr slider mix, and my initial impression is that it is alot more responsive. I also did a timed 0-60 run ( same run twice before and after) and it appears to have shaved off about 1.7 seconds off the 0-60. The engine now revs more freely up to 6500 rpm, and the acceleration is much improved in the higher speeds. Top speed doesn't see to be affected, but I have not tried to max it yet.
The only thing I have noticed so far is that the initial off the line (maybe the first meter) it has slightly less grunt, previously I was able to power slide and at times mini burn out off the line, but I don't seem to do that any more, which is better and safer. As for fuel economy, well I have only done about 50KM SO far, but the trip computer after being reset is actually now marking about 1km per litre better than previously which is impressive. I am going to keep testing and let them wear in and see how a prolonged test works out, but so far it is recommended from my end to any one :)

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That's how mixing rollers and sliders ended up for me. In lower variator position all pressure is on rollers and in high variator position all pressure is on sliders, resulting in destruction of both in about 2000 miles.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Ouch, looks harsh, but I am mixing different weight sliders, not sliders and rollers, so I believe I should not get this issue right?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:03 pm 
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Atabone wrote:
Ouch, looks harsh, but I am mixing different weight sliders, not sliders and rollers, so I believe I should not get this issue right?

Sorry, missread your post. Different shapes are the issue not weight.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Maybe that is why Ed recommends carbon fiber rollers to be mixed with sliders?

lolofigo: What were the weights of those rollers and sliders?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:05 am 
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E. Foster Salsbury wrote:
Maybe that is why Ed recommends carbon fiber rollers to be mixed with sliders?

lolofigo: What were the weights of those rollers and sliders?

Those are from my pcx and yuminashi variator 13g sliders and 10g rollers. I didn't seem a bad idea at the time but was really surprised when taking variator apart to see all the damage. I'm running 164 yuminashi upgrade so probably faster of the line than forza 300 but noticed drop in performance so decided to have a look inside variator just to find rollers shredded to bits and sliders badly worn out.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am 
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Atabone wrote:
So I just installed the 17gr and 19gr slider mix,

So why mix sliders of different weights unless you really wanted 18gm and they don't make them. Try all of the 17gm and see what you get>

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:59 am 
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You are all a bunch of twits. Just buy a bigger motorcycle, buy a Harley, see yah, rain riding to look at BIG trucks today on my Forza 300.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:09 am 
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@davenowherejones: if this topic does not interest you simply do not read it, no need to call everyone names just because you don't agree with something.

moving back on topic, so its been a week since i did the modification, and over all i seem to have lost just 1 km per litre on my fuel consumption.

As i previously stated the off the line take off power has slightly decreased, but over all acceleration to 60 is improved.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:20 pm 
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My comment what not meant to insult anyone but some take the tuning to extremes which makes a fun hobby but is a little silly at times. I used to have a Yamaha BWS 49cc. The BWS people would spend a lot of time and money to increase their speed a little bit.

Like I say an interesting hobby but to go "significantly" faster you have to increase the engine size by about 10 times for the BWS. My 150cc Geely scooter was only a little bit faster than my 49cc BWS. My Forza is faster than the Geely but still way slower than a Burgman 650 which is a true highway machine.

I like my Forza because it can't go too fast most of the time.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Atabone wrote:
@davenowherejones: if this topic does not interest you simply do not read it, no need to call everyone names just because you don't agree with something.

moving back on topic, so its been a week since i did the modification, and over all i seem to have lost just 1 km per litre on my fuel consumption.

As i previously stated the off the line take off power has slightly decreased, but over all acceleration to 60 is improved.


The margin of error in your mpg calculations is greater than 1 km per litre. A headwind/tailwind will give you bigger errors. The changes in acceleration are so small that it is more of a perception than a reality. But hey if you are able to break the laws of physics then more power to you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm 
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I agree headwinds etc have a greater affect, which is why when I tested the 0-60 times I did so on a windless day, and did 4 runs before and after in both directions and worked on the average. That removes the headwind issues

It's hardly what I call breaking the law of physics, it's simply moving the engines rpm range from a lower point to one where the engine produces its peak power. That results in slightly better performance.
If you read the other 20 pages of posts in this thread you will find other people have done this and have similar results


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:03 am 
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davenowherejones wrote:
You are all a bunch of twits. Just buy a bigger motorcycle, buy a Harley, see yah, rain riding to look at BIG trucks today on my Forza 300.

I think of changing the weights as the equivalent of adding or removing a tooth on the counter sprocket to tailor a bike more to your needs. Lighter weights, smaller counter sprocket. Heavier weights, larger counter sprocket.
Have you ever changed a counter sprocket on any of your bikes?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Problem is, there's only one (trans-mission) speed to play with on a CVT scooter. You let it
rev more freely at low vehicule speeds, and voilà it overrevs at high speeds (since it was
normally built to reach top revs at reacheable top speed).

I wouldn't fool around with these, just make sure they're properly cleaned/lubed every year or so.
(belt itself should be good for 30K -- Dave Jones is quite hard on his and has only changed it
once in 48K, so maybe 40K is possible for slower pokes like me?)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Don't know bout that. With 18 gram sliders I'm 8500rpm at 145kph. What's your rpm at 145kph indicated?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:09 pm 
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aguim wrote:
Problem is, there's only one (trans-mission) speed to play with on a CVT scooter. You let it
rev more freely at low vehicule speeds, and voilà it overrevs at high speeds (since it was
normally built to reach top revs at reacheable top speed).

I wouldn't fool around with these, just make sure they're properly cleaned/lubed every year or so.
(belt itself should be good for 30K -- Dave Jones is quite hard on his and has only changed it
once in 48K, so maybe 40K is possible for slower pokes like me?)

Common misconception. Once a steady speed is achieved the load is off of the belt so the torque slots are no longer holding the revs up against the contra spring. The revs drop as the weights slide all the way out to lock up as they would with heavier weights. Most scooters are past the highest reasonable pulling rpm that anyone would select by going to lighter weights by the time they approach highway speed so that the rpm versus speed above 50 mph with the PCX for example, will be the same regardless of what weights you are using. DrPully sliders will actually reduce the cruising rpm slightly due to their ability to slightly increase the the travel of the variator which makes the overall gearing slightly longer after lockout. Lighter DrPully sliders are a win, win, win, with a slightly lower ratio at launch as well as a pulling rpm which is closer to the power peak and a higher overall ratio at high speeds.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:52 pm 
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I'm not sure I can understand your second sentence. The physics of CVT transmission of power
are indeed complicated...but well understood by the engineers that design them, and end up
with setups that are better left alone, as shown by some revealing photos, right here my dear.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Feel free to leave yours alone.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:45 pm 
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E. Foster Salsbury wrote:
Don't know bout that. With 18 gram sliders I'm 8500rpm at 145kph. What's your rpm at 145kph indicated?


Wow, great results. I once did 140 kmh with mine, but was too busy keeping it on the road
to notice the revs.

More relevant would be RELIABILITY. Last time I had a look at its totally stock setup, everything
looked as new (@13.500Kkm). Based on that, I'd say the rollers should be good for 50K. BTW,
I have no idea how heavy these stock rollers are...20 grams?

145kmh/8500 rpm is very, very good. See you at 50K.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Oh la la! Make that 13.5 Kkm.


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