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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Year: 2016 Forza
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I'm having a problem with my 2016 Forza at slow, parking lot speeds. It's fine if I take off from a stop with a good amount of throttle. Throttle response is smooth and acceleration is plenty for me. But when I drive slowly, perhaps due to slow traffic, stop and go traffic, or in a parking lot with pedestrians, the throttle is very difficult to hold a slow speed. For example, I'll turn the throttle a little and it's like the clutch is still engaged, then I turn it a little more and it seems to want to move but not quite enough, then I turn it a little more and it lurches forward like the clutch was suddenly released and it wants to take off. Holding a near walking speed in slow traffic is nearly impossible and even if I find the right throttle setting, it feels rough & jerky like the clutch is slipping. I know it doesn't have a clutch in the traditional sense but it's the only way I know how to describe the feeling. I know there are CVT variator weight kits available but I am perfectly happy with acceleration and performance with the stock setup. I'm just not happy with the difficulty in controlling the throttle smoothly at slow speeds. Would an aftermarket kit help with this? Or is there another fix of some kind? It does not feel safe the way it lunges forward suddenly and unexpectedly, especially when I'm close to other vehicles or pedestrians.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Do a few burnouts to bed things in??? Lubricate things??? Use a little brake at low speeds??? Buy a car???

I am sure wiser people than me can give you GOOD advise.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Have a good mechanic check the CVT operation. Once its cover is off, it is no big deal to see what's
wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:03 pm 
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aguim wrote:
Have a good mechanic check the CVT operation. Once its cover is off, it is no big deal to see what's
wrong.


A "good" mechanic is probably too busy to look at a CVT for a trivial reason.

So how many miles does this problem scooter have? Brand new or worn out? Defective scooter or defective rider? Or both?

The clutch at the rear wheel needs a certain amount of rpm before it engages. If the throttle is sticky then control problems will exist. If the user has a heavy touch on the throttle control problems will exist. New aircraft pilots tend to use too much inputs to the controls. Gentle, light applications of power are needed.

CVT scooters have weird automatic clutches. Get up to speed and then let it coast. As it slows down you will have a point as the clutch disengages and the scooter freewheels to a stop. I find this a little un-nerving coasting down a steep mountain road. You have engine braking while the clutch is engaged but as soon as it disengages the scooter starts to speed up, time to hit the brakes.

I like these simplistic CVT and clutch systems but I would like to have a DCT motorcycle next. If I won the lottery last night I would get an Africa Twin or a NM-4.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Ride it like you stole it.

Power, let it coast, power, let it coast.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:52 am 
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davenowherejones wrote:
aguim wrote:
Have a good mechanic check the CVT operation. Once its cover is off, it is no big deal to see what's
wrong.


A "good" mechanic is probably too busy to look at a CVT for a trivial reason.

So how many miles does this problem scooter have? Brand new or worn out? Defective scooter or defective rider? Or both?

The clutch at the rear wheel needs a certain amount of rpm before it engages. If the throttle is sticky then control problems will exist. If the user has a heavy touch on the throttle control problems will exist. New aircraft pilots tend to use too much inputs to the controls. Gentle, light applications of power are needed.

CVT scooters have weird automatic clutches. Get up to speed and then let it coast. As it slows down you will have a point as the clutch disengages and the scooter freewheels to a stop. I find this a little un-nerving coasting down a steep mountain road. You have engine braking while the clutch is engaged but as soon as it disengages the scooter starts to speed up, time to hit the brakes.

I like these simplistic CVT and clutch systems but I would like to have a DCT motorcycle next. If I won the lottery last night I would get an Africa Twin or a NM-4.



davenowherejones, the bike has 5000 Km on it. I suppose it could be a defective rider, but I doubt it considering my other bike is a BMW R1200GSA with over 100,000 miles since I bought it new in 2008.

Yes I am a pilot as a matter of fact but I've been flying for over 25 years so not exactly a "new" pilot. Though I did tend to be a bit heavy handed when flying my old Mooney M20J, but that's only because it was an extremely fun plane to fly fast.

Never heard of the NM-4 until now. I just looked it up. Looks like a bike that a zombie apocalypse fighter would ride.

Anyways, back to my Forza. We've ruled out defective rider. We've ruled out new pilot. And we've ruled out upgrading to a zombie apocalypse fighter bike. I think we're getting close to a solution.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:59 am 
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I just went out for a quick ride and to do a little testing. The bike seems to run rough below 20 Kph and below 3000 RPM. Even at higher speeds, if I roll on the throttle slowly and the RPMs are below 3000, the bike shakes. Below 15 Kph and below 2500 RPM and the bike shakes a lot.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:44 am 
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Doesn't sound right. Is it still under warranty?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:03 am 
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Probably not related but have you cleaned the CVT air filter?

You need a screw driver & allen keys to get at it. It is just foam rubber so soap and water is fine.

It is just something to keep the insects & dust out.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:18 am 
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Please enter your location in the profile. You might be American so you also have to check that the parking brake is fully releasing. We do not have a parking brake in Canada. Put the Forza on the centre stand and give the tire a spin by hand. There will be some friction from all the parts but it should turn.

Check that the wheel is on tight. I had a guy give me a car with the wheel nuts only finger tight.

Also remember that this is a cheap single cylinder scooter and not a fine expensive BMW.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:55 am 
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I think this somewhat normal for a CVT drive. There is a point where the clutch engages and disengages coupled with the variator going in and out . The belt may have some oscillation just before engagement .This may cause the vibration you allude to. Sometimes you can improve the engagement and low speed operation by roughing up the clutch pads (sanding them ). When they get glazed the clutch may jitter a bit before engagement. I think it could be the material HONDA uses in its clutch pads . There are tradeoffs and Honda chooses longevity over smoothness in their material. That juttering- jerky affect seems to be normal in stop and go slow speed engage- disengage operation. Nature of the beast just may be.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:38 am 
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Location: northern ontario
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Not normal at all. Mine is still super smooth @ 26K (it became a bit jerky at around 2-3K , had to clean up the clutch).
Cleaning the clutch is quite easy, but I've seen old farts screwing it up.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:22 am 
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I have seen some younger folks not know the difference between smooth and a jitter on a scooter.Some think its super smooth when in fact there is some jitter .Just a matter perception sometimes.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:36 am 
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Welcome, Amandaville.

I'd say your scoot's performance isn't normal. As Aguim says, it should be super-smooth at all speeds; that would be normal.

I would take off the final drive cover and look for glazed surfaces or dirt in the clutch. It's an easy enough fix: clean the parts and blow out the dust. No need to spend money on a kit; the stock Forza setup works great.

BTW, which do you prefer at parking-lot speeds - your Forza or your GS? :)

I'm smiling because I have a R1100S which is not exactly in its element in a parking lot, to say the least. Also, YouYou on this forum has a BCR, so he be knowin' what I'm talking about.

Johnny

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:53 am 
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easyrider wrote:
I have seen some younger folks not know the difference between smooth and a jitter on a scooter.Some think its super smooth when in fact there is some jitter .Just a matter perception sometimes.

Yup - Young Farts can screw it up too...... :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:28 pm 
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montliz44 wrote:
Welcome, Amandaville.

I'd say your scoot's performance isn't normal. As Aguim says, it should be super-smooth at all speeds; that would be normal.

I would take off the final drive cover and look for glazed surfaces or dirt in the clutch. It's an easy enough fix: clean the parts and blow out the dust. No need to spend money on a kit; the stock Forza setup works great.

BTW, which do you prefer at parking-lot speeds - your Forza or your GS? :)

I'm smiling because I have a R1100S which is not exactly in its element in a parking lot, to say the least. Also, YouYou on this forum has a BCR, so he be knowin' what I'm talking about.

Johnny


:lol: it’s not bad but I’m pretty tall. The OP doesn’t have our model but rather a 1200 GS and they are lovely at slow speeds.

Post a picture of your R1100s? :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:51 pm 
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I found my Forza took a long time to break in. 5000 km is not much, 3100 miles. Ride it hard for a while, take it up to 130 km/h and back a few times. Stay out of slow traffic and parking lots. Go somewhere! Have fun!

I am staring at my thermometer until noon. By then I figure the ice will have melted. I am going to Boston Bar for lunch and to look at the rock falls on the highway.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:43 pm 
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My experience with a year and 5500 miles with the Forza ,and with 3 other brands of scooters, is that at very low speeds (walking speeds) the throttle is pretty much an "On - Off" switch. The nature of a CVT scooter.
Riding my son's CB500X I can go very slowly and smoothly - but it is a motorcycle with gears, not an auto-rubber-band transmission. If I need low speeds on a scoot I give it some throttle and drag the brake a touch.
Frankly, I do not see anything wrong with your Forza's low speed behavior. Many larger displacement scooters are not a whole lot of fun in heavy stop/go city traffic if walking speeds are needed. Whacking a 50cc on and off might be the way to ride best in that stuff.
I loved my Forza.
Fish


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Location: northern ontario
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At very low speeds, ANYTHING with 2 wheels becomes treacherously difficult to handle, however
refined. I once fell from an Fi-XT250 trying to circle a dime and broke about 300$ worth of stuff.

My XT was working just fine. Not so sure about that Forza (mine handles much better under said
circumstances). My bet is that something minor is at fault with the CVT, a rather simple thing to
check for anybody with mechanical inclinations.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Amandaville wrote:
I'm having a problem with my 2016 Forza at slow, parking lot speeds. It's fine if I take off from a stop with a good amount of throttle. Throttle response is smooth and acceleration is plenty for me. But when I drive slowly, perhaps due to slow traffic, stop and go traffic, or in a parking lot with pedestrians, the throttle is very difficult to hold a slow speed. For example, I'll turn the throttle a little and it's like the clutch is still engaged, then I turn it a little more and it seems to want to move but not quite enough, then I turn it a little more and it lurches forward like the clutch was suddenly released and it wants to take off. Holding a near walking speed in slow traffic is nearly impossible and even if I find the right throttle setting, it feels rough & jerky like the clutch is slipping. I know it doesn't have a clutch in the traditional sense but it's the only way I know how to describe the feeling. I know there are CVT variator weight kits available but I am perfectly happy with acceleration and performance with the stock setup. I'm just not happy with the difficulty in controlling the throttle smoothly at slow speeds. Would an aftermarket kit help with this? Or is there another fix of some kind? It does not feel safe the way it lunges forward suddenly and unexpectedly, especially when I'm close to other vehicles or pedestrians.


I've found the throttle response at slow speeds with my 2014 Forza is a little abrupt at slow speeds...sort of "on/off"...I attribute that to the electronic fuel injection. My previous Reflex with a carburetor was much smoother. Mine is manageable so live with it. If yours isn't, have it looked at...could be fuel injection problem or CVT problem. Throttle cable properly secured?


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