Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Having trouble? Need more info on something mechanical? Ask here!

Moderator: Modsquad

MBMyer
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Red
Location: Columbia, SC USA

Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by MBMyer »

What sort of battery life are people getting out of their NSS300s? I ask because mine did a thing today that I associate with impending battery death, but the thing only has 20 months / 5200 miles on it.
Current ride: 2014 Forza bought new in mid-2015 with only 15K on the clock
Traded in: 2003 GL1800 with 152K and several IBA rides on the clock
6 other previous bikes
nearly 3/4 million miles logged
now just commuting instead of touring
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

"did a thing today"...can you elaborate?
MBMyer
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Red
Location: Columbia, SC USA

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by MBMyer »

I flipped the kickstand up, squeezed the brake lever, and pressed the started button. The bike said "click" and did nothing else.

I kicked the stand back down, released both the button and the lever, and then started over. This time, the bike cranked & started, but only ran for about a second and a half and then died. On the third repetition, it stayed running and has done so over a couple of other trips this evening.

Over the last 35 years, I have had bikes behave this way exactly three times. I have suspected switches, relays, and even master fuses. All three times it has been a cell in the battery dropping dead. Put in a new battery, and all was good.

If no one has any other suggestions soon, I will very likely buy a battery on spec.
Current ride: 2014 Forza bought new in mid-2015 with only 15K on the clock
Traded in: 2003 GL1800 with 152K and several IBA rides on the clock
6 other previous bikes
nearly 3/4 million miles logged
now just commuting instead of touring
User avatar
dougfreeze
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:36 pm
Year: 2016
Color: Red

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by dougfreeze »

I'd take the battery to an auto parts store, one that does free battery checks. They'll tell you if you have a dead cell in the battery.
The only time my battery died was when I left it alone for six days. But after jumping it, it's been flawless.
It's only three months old though.
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

First, remove the battery cover (3 phillips#3 bolts at the bottom of the underseat). There, look
for loose pole connection(s).Then check static static batt. voltage (w. switch OFF): should be min.12.6 volts, 12.8 is perfect.

Then push that starter button, and check the batt. voltage drop. What does it show?
If drop is huge, suspect a bad battery (possible on a 2014 with 2 years of showroom un-use).
If no drop, the relay is at fault, even if 'clicking'.

There are other possible causes to your problem, but I'd first check those.
Pete07bikes
New Member
New Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: White
Location: Medway, Kent

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by Pete07bikes »

Hi MBMyer - low usage kills batteries and 20 months & 5,200 miles is the kind of mileage I do on my 'Sunday' best Bandit - which has a Ultimate charger attached to it all day while it sits in a warm garage.
In contrast my Forza sits outside every night and is used most week days and has done 18,400 miles in 28 months, touch wood I've never had a problem with it.
Thank you for the tip Aguim - I will test my battery at the weekend

Medway Towns, Kent
Honda Forza 300
Suzuki Bandit 650
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

Hi, Pete.

I hear you lucky brits (isn't Kent somewhere out-there) can ride all year if brave enough!

You say, not a problem in 18,400 miles, all very good. But what about the rear brake pads ? Many
people over here in the swamps can't get much more than around 7-8,000 miles out of them...
I can live with that, but is this 'normal' with the Forza -- even in Britain where you DON'T use
them brakes anyway? Ha ha
Pete07bikes
New Member
New Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: White
Location: Medway, Kent

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by Pete07bikes »

Hi Aguim,
Yes Kent is in the South East (warm bit) of blighty but I tend to use a car Nov, Dec & Jan more because of dark evenings than bad weather, rest of the year its the scooter doing average of 190 miles a week.
I bought my Forza used at 6 months old with 1800 miles on it and had new brake pads back & front fitted with drive belt & rollers at 14500 miles, the rear pads were on the limit mind.
My back tyre lasts about 7,000 miles and I check the pads when replacing the tyre so if they look thin I'll replace them - as you say not much bother really.
Normal rear pad life: I've heard people wear a set of rear pads out in 4,000 miles it city/town work and others have said the pads don't release the disc properly due to the close proximity of the (hot) exhaust so that will increase wear.
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

Pete,

Yes, I also noticed that (relative) caliper/disc heat, compared to the front ones. Not much we
can do about it, but I may try adding some not-too-ugly asbestos padding over/under the protective
shield, there. Looks like the brake hose is a bit too close to the super hot muffler...On my Shadow
Aero 750 the removal of the Air Injection system greatly reduced muffler heat, but I'm not 100%
sure I should do this on the catalytic Forza...hmmm...
Jge64
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1830
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:30 pm
Year: 18 300 xmax
Color: White
Location: Fort lauderdale
Contact:

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by Jge64 »

I had an old bike one time that did the exact same thing. I thought the battery was dead, but looked at the terminals and there was very light corrosion on the cable connector, I cleaned up both terminals, reattached, and never had a problem again.
Glen
‘15 PCX build thread here:
https://www.hondapcx.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4640
Current: ‘18 XMAX 300 & ‘22 NAVI
MBMyer
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: Red
Location: Columbia, SC USA

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by MBMyer »

Evening, everyone.

aguim, I will definitely do the loaded / unloaded voltage test this weekend when I have time, but the crucial symptom in my mind is the fact that when the bike started is just shut off after about a second and a half. The times that I've had both starter failure and random shutdown have been internal battery failure. And while I didn't have enough knowledge the first time I lived through this (way back before the internet was a thing), the next two times the battery passed its voltage tests. The most recent time was at the beginning of a five week trip on the Wing; I was several hundred miles from home and started having intermittent shutdowns and starting failures. The previous two battery failures (stuff inside got loose and started shorting out) were with traditional lead/acid batteries. The Wing battery was an AGM, so I turned to the various Wing lists, and consensus was that the main fuse would develop a crack that only opened under the heat of a steady load. I duly bought a new main fuse, and was ready to swap it out, when the bike went permanently dead in a motel parking lot in WV. A quick test showed continuity across the main fuse, so I let it be. A test across the AGM battery, however...

So, having both a starting failure AND a random shutdown during the same event, my mind naturally goes to the battery. I think that Pete07bikes is likely to be correct about my current riding habits (lots of short trips, most ≤ 5 miles) being bad for the battery. I just don't have the time for long trips in my life right now. I may have to start plugging in the charger overnight every day, which (for the sake of time and convenience) would mean leaving a plug dangling on the left side of the seat on a more-or-less permanent basis.

Right now, I'm just hoping to make it to the weekend, when I can take the time to check connections and test battery voltage static and under a load. If nothing seems abnormal, I'm going to order a replacement battery, but I will also be perusing the service manual for the location of the starter relay.

Speaking of which, the only starter relay I have ever had go bad on a bike in over half a million miles did not stay open; it stuck closed. I had to disconnect the battery to stop the starter from spinning, even with the key out and the kill switch set to off. It toasted a couple of other components in the electrical system. I've had to clean starter switches a few times, but I've only ever had to deal with a starter relay on the one bike.

Pax et bonum,
Michael
Current ride: 2014 Forza bought new in mid-2015 with only 15K on the clock
Traded in: 2003 GL1800 with 152K and several IBA rides on the clock
6 other previous bikes
nearly 3/4 million miles logged
now just commuting instead of touring
User avatar
dougfreeze
Forum Benefactor
Forum Benefactor
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:36 pm
Year: 2016
Color: Red

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by dougfreeze »

Jge64 wrote:I had an old bike one time that did the exact same thing. I thought the battery was dead, but looked at the terminals and there was very light corrosion on the cable connector, I cleaned up both terminals, reattached, and never had a problem again.
I didn't even think of the terminals. That's the first place to look when having battery problems.
Even if they look good, clean them up. It makes a world of difference.
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

Michael,

I also had that 'stuck relay' problem, only once, too. I panicked and let the starter struggle for a whole
minute with the switch OFF while I was frantically trying to diconnect the battery, also, but without
toasting anything luckily. Then I realized I should have left the switch ON and let the starter clutch
freewheel @ 500rpm with engine @ idling rpm!!!(no chance of harming anything on a typical
sprag- clutched motorcycle 'system' , doing that). Next time I'll know...

I share your battery suspicions, based on the intermittent stalls. Most of the time, a defective one
will show a sharp voltage drop when heavily stressed, (jumping the relay's two posts
is the simplest way to instantly stress-load it, bypassing the relay -- therefore testing the battery
only). My bet : the battery spent 2 years self degrading, then was given one deadly 10 amps
quick charge. This happens all the time...
aguim
Regular User
Regular User
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:03 pm
Year: Forza 300
Color: red/2014
Location: northern ontario

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by aguim »

Oh, forgot to ask : have you heard of the fuel pump two recalls? (a fuel pump problem should not
affect the starter's operation -- the diagrams show both systems as independant -- but WILL
cause stalls.

But I'd still bet on the battery only (mine had 13,500 trouble-free km on the original pump when
they let me change it for the newest one -- I was able to convince the dealer that I was sparing
him tons of plastics claims by doing it myself haha.
Pete07bikes
New Member
New Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:34 pm
Year: 2014
Color: White
Location: Medway, Kent

Re: Battery life on the 300? (or something else)

Post by Pete07bikes »

Hi Aguim,
I'll be interested to hear if your asbestos pad is effective - depending on how my Forza runs in 2017/18 I might invest in Arrow pipe & silencer which is smaller than the original (+ a shed-load lighter) and gives more clearance to the rear caliper which should reduce the heat. Personally I really like the Scooter itself and would be willing to make a few tweaks to improve it - I've also thought about buying some car side window spoilers (they look the right shape) and moulding them onto the fairing to give more weather protection because I reckon a wind deflector like that would work well.
Post Reply