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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:08 pm 
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I know this has been talked about previously but how do you make the rear brake pads on the Honda Forza last any length of time?

And don't say, Don't use them!!!

I am almost down to the steal once again. The current pads have about 9000 km (5600 miles).

I do a lot of riding on both highways and city roads. I ride in the rain a lot. The Canadian roads are not the best.

I use the brakes hard on the highways when people do stupid things in front of me.

I put high temperature brake lubricant on the pins and sliding surfaces. I polished the edges of the pads so they could slide easily.

It is not practical to wash my Forza every ride.

Should the metal shield between the muffler and the brakes be modified? Polished?

My other motorcycles almost never needed the rear pads replaced. The Forza has almost no engine braking so the pads get used more.

The combined braking system does not put any pressure on the rear pads when the front brake is used by itself. The combined system only works when you use only the rear hand lever and then it applies one piston to the front.

So is the Honda Forza braking system inadequate for a HIGHWAY capable scooter?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:37 pm 
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I can't tell you how to make them last longer because you've told us not to.
Maybe an aftermarket exhaust might help with the heat issue.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Hi,
I find the engine braking on my Forza 300 really good - check your tickover (idle speed) it should be 1,500 rpm or less.
You say you use the brakes hard on the freeway when people do stupid things in front of me - not teaching you to suck eggs but do you keep a minimum of 2 seconds between you & the vehicle in front (4 seconds if the road is wet)? This gives you more time to react and should reduce the amount of hard braking necessary.
Also highway braking should be done using the front brake as it is far more effective than the rear brake - I generally just use the rear brake for slow (under 15mph) to steady the scoot - the front brake gets used much more.
I got 15,650 miles from my front & rear brake pads - admittedly the rear pads were on the limit but the scoot had already done 2,000 miles when I bought it so it could have been that the previous owner used the rear brake harder than I do.
My use is circa 900 miles per month using a mixture of motorways/dual carriageways/country lanes & town work.
Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Pete07bikes wrote:
Hi,
I find the engine braking on my Forza 300 really good - check your tickover (idle speed) it should be 1,500 rpm or less.
You say you use the brakes hard on the freeway when people do stupid things in front of me - not teaching you to suck eggs but do you keep a minimum of 2 seconds between you & the vehicle in front (4 seconds if the road is wet)? This gives you more time to react and should reduce the amount of hard braking necessary.
Also highway braking should be done using the front brake as it is far more effective than the rear brake - I generally just use the rear brake for slow (under 15mph) to steady the scoot - the front brake gets used much more.
I got 15,650 miles from my front & rear brake pads - admittedly the rear pads were on the limit but the scoot had already done 2,000 miles when I bought it so it could have been that the previous owner used the rear brake harder than I do.
My use is circa 900 miles per month using a mixture of motorways/dual carriageways/country lanes & town work.
Hope this helps


I had a DR650 and it had good engine braking. My idle is good. Our highways are full of stupid people. I try to stay even further than 4 seconds. I have several hundred thousand kilometres of experience. I know all about front brakes. I am amazed that some people are afraid of them. Use them people. I ride long distances in the mountains. The less I use the brakes the better but our highways are full of stupid people.

I find 15,000 miles hard to believe but I don't doubt you are telling the truth. I guess those panic stops from 120 kmph really are hard on the brakes. I think a lot of the Forza problems are really down to poor quality control in Thailand. Some people have no problems while others have lots of problems.

I have had no brake problems with any of my other motorcycle except with my BWS. Those Yamaha brake pads are about the size of a quarter (?). Incredibly small. They wore out a lot.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Pete07bikes wrote:
Also highway braking should be done using the front brake as it is far more effective than the rear brake - I generally just use the rear brake for slow (under 15mph) to steady the scoot - the front brake gets used much more.


Optimum braking from speed is both brakes together, wet or dry.
The fore/aft weight balance is completely different from a regular motorcycle, there's significantly more weight on the rear wheel and as a consequence the rear brake is far more effective.
So its just plain daft not to use it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:02 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Pete07bikes wrote:
Also highway braking should be done using the front brake as it is far more effective than the rear brake - I generally just use the rear brake for slow (under 15mph) to steady the scoot - the front brake gets used much more.


Optimum braking from speed is both brakes together, wet or dry.
The fore/aft weight balance is completely different from a regular motorcycle, there's significantly more weight on the rear wheel and as a consequence the rear brake is far more effective.
So its just plain daft not to use it.


I agree with you. Scooters are different.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:43 am 
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Hello, I am from Holland.
I have bought a brand new Forza 300 and found my rear pads being worn out just over 4000 km. In my opinion this was way too fast. I installed new pads and examined the rear brake by stopping several times on the road to feel if the rear disk was hot. I found out that the rear brake was still hot, even after several miles without using the the brake.
My strong feeling is that the rear brake does not release completely after usage. It seems that the pressure on the pads just fades away slowly. I am not sure whether this is due to friction or to the brake oil pressure decreasing too slowly after using the brakes. Maybe the construction of the combined braking system is at stake here. So far, I have had no problems with my front brake.
By the way, I am a very satified user of the Forza. Apart from the rear brake issue I have had no major problems. I have had the seat hight adjusted right from the start. A considerable higher seat is so much more comfortable for me.
Anyway, together we should be able to solve the rear brake problem! Thank you.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:52 am 
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Tjeerd wrote:
Hello, I am from Holland.
I have bought a brand new Forza 300 and found my rear pads being worn out just over 4000 km. In my opinion this was way too fast. I installed new pads and examined the rear brake by stopping several times on the road to feel if the rear disk was hot. I found out that the rear brake was still hot, even after several miles without using the the brake.
My strong feeling is that the rear brake does not release completely after usage. It seems that the pressure on the pads just fades away slowly. I am not sure whether this is due to friction or to the brake oil pressure decreasing too slowly after using the brakes. Maybe the construction of the combined braking system is at stake here. So far, I have had no problems with my front brake.
By the way, I am a very satified user of the Forza. Apart from the rear brake issue I have had no major problems. I have had the seat hight adjusted right from the start. A considerable higher seat is so much more comfortable for me.
Anyway, together we should be able to solve the rear brake problem! Thank you.


Has anyone tried stainless steel brake lines?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:12 am 
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I doubt that steel braided lines would change anything on the matter, however sintered pads might last longer than OEM organic ones. Sintered material is a lot less sensitive to heat, and also has a stronger structure so wears out later.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:46 am 
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So as not to hijack the thread - Tjeerd - A) Welcome aboard, and B) Please start a thread about your seat height mod.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:52 am 
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Oyabun wrote:
I doubt that steel braided lines would change anything on the matter, however sintered pads might last longer than OEM organic ones. Sintered material is a lot less sensitive to heat, and also has a stronger structure so wears out later.


I tried a pair of sintered on my back Forza 300 brakes and they wore out just as fast as the organics. Now this may just be MY Forza.

Again, I think maybe Thailand QC issues? Thai vs Japanese language problems? Or it may be ME? Who knows!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:13 am 
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The standard pads are sintered.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:54 am 
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How long you expect these pour brake pads to last? My ones lasted 24.000km! But my caliper does not look like yours!


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Dave's Honda Forza 300 Rear Caliper.jpg
Dave's Honda Forza 300 Rear Caliper.jpg [ 263.54 KiB | Viewed 1652 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:08 pm 
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I almost never use the rear brakes on my bikes except in emergency stop situations or if I'm backing up my bike down a hill. The reason being that I want my rear brake use to be deliberate to avoid rear brake lockups.

With that said, after having tried the combined braking system for the first time, I might be more comfortable with using the rear brake more day to day. That could lead to additional rear brake usage. I know traditionally in cars, rear brakes have lasted twice as long as front brakes. But with electronic brake distribution in modern cars which uses more rear brake to reduce front end dive except in emergency braking situations, the rear brake life has gone down and front brake life has gone up to about at par. So I can see the combined braking system having the same effect.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:42 pm 
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DioTiAma wrote:
How long you expect these pour brake pads to last? My ones lasted 24.000km! But my caliper does not look like yours!


I bet Cyprus does not get a lot of rain. We get a lot of rain and have some of the worlds tallest trees to prove it. Some of our areas qualify as rain forests. I ride thousands of kilometres in the rain and it is cold.

So what does your caliper look like?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:52 pm 
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dkazzed wrote:
I almost never use the rear brakes on my bikes except in emergency stop situations or if I'm backing up my bike down a hill. The reason being that I want my rear brake use to be deliberate to avoid rear brake lockups.

[size=150]Do you not have ABS? With ABS the rear will practically never lock up. I have tried to lock up the rears in a parking lot. I could not do it. The ABS shuddered in and I had to put my foot down in a big hurry. Stops fast.[/size]

With that said, after having tried the combined braking system for the first time, I might be more comfortable with using the rear brake more day to day. That could lead to additional rear brake usage. I know traditionally in cars, rear brakes have lasted twice as long as front brakes. But with electronic brake distribution in modern cars which uses more rear brake to reduce front end dive except in emergency braking situations, the rear brake life has gone down and front brake life has gone up to about at par. So I can see the combined braking system having the same effect.


I have come to realize I just need to buy a lot of pads for the way I ride too fast. There is nothing I can do about it. I bought a Forza 300 because I have problems going slow. A litre sport bike would be way too fast and my old guy reactions are no longer fast enough. The bad drivers around here cause me to use the brakes too much.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:08 pm 
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I tried using a screwdriver to force open a sticking (?) rear brake. I am not sure if it helped. I think so but???

Should I use a small silver hammer on it every ride just to tap the dirt out? Here in the wild west our streets are not as clean as you city types.

I got 84 miles per Canadian gallon going to Princeton and 94 mpCg on the way back to Hope. Princeton is 2163 ft higher than Hope but I detoured on the way back to the Manning Park Sub-Apline nature walk (6500 ft)

I actually went out to get milk but somehow it took 300 km to put milk in my fridge. Canada is bigger.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Oyabun wrote:
I doubt that steel braided lines would change anything on the matter, however sintered pads might last longer than OEM organic ones. Sintered material is a lot less sensitive to heat, and also has a stronger structure so wears out later.


This solution has a trade-off. Sintered pads do last longer, but the rotors wear down faster. In addition, brake operation often becomes much more acoustically alive (think of a lorry with brake shoes worn down to the metal). I counted it as a mistake after switching to sintered pads on my Vulcan. My 2 cents worth...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Dufus wrote:
Oyabun wrote:
I doubt that steel braided lines would change anything on the matter, however sintered pads might last longer than OEM organic ones. Sintered material is a lot less sensitive to heat, and also has a stronger structure so wears out later.


This solution has a trade-off. Sintered pads do last longer, but the rotors wear down faster. In addition, brake operation often becomes much more acoustically alive (think of a lorry with brake shoes worn down to the metal). I counted it as a mistake after switching to sintered pads on my Vulcan. My 2 cents worth...


I replace the worn out originals with sintered on my DR650 and I never could get used to the noise. I think they take longer to bed in. New rotor/new pads would probably be OK.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:52 pm 
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I finally had the parts I wanted for my Forza after a few tries. I pulled the rear calliper off and the brakes were ruined again. The inner pad was down to the metal and the outer pad was almost brand new.

What causes the calliper to stick like this?


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