Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:28 am

I see others have had a fuel leak after the fuel pump recall was done , I got mine back with a empty tank so I added 3/4 of a tank and drove to my destination stopped and smelled fuel I looked down and gas was driping on the ground , a puddle 3 feet by 2 feet after 30 minutes, not a very safe situation ! As in most cars when they leak the tank is 15 feet away from the engine but on this scooter the tank is a foot away from a hot engine ,and even closer a hot exhaust pipe and with the fuel while driving blowing all over the engine this could lead to a fire, honda needs to check into this to find out what the problem is ,is there a problem with the updated parts or with the way they were installed. Honda needs to provide there honda dealers with a (t.s.b.) technical service bulletin of the updated information or a caution to there techs regarding a posible fuel leak after the recall, I know others have had similar problems and have also had other problems with panels been broken during the fuel pump recall , it would be good if anyone with problems after the recall to share there stories , so all honda forza owners know what to expect from this recall , before someone gets hurt from a fire! Note I did call honda Canada regarding this ( customer relations) they weren't to concerned ,they simply said take it back to the dealer that worked on it ( power sports Canada in ottawa ) since it was there problem , I'm not to confident in there work quality as they scratched my seat ,left screws out under the fuel door panel and now a major fuel leak,plus maybe other hidden things under all those panels, I now think there maybe is a problem with this recall either by parts failure or the way it's done due to others with the same problem. I will update this post when I find out what the problem is as I maybe will be removing all the panels to inspect what the problem is . Just a note I'm a 33 year automotive tech ( shop foreman ) with over twenty years experience working at a honda dealer and 13 years working at a g.m. Dealer and corner garages.

Don

gn2 · Post by **gn2** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:41 am

Apparently the replacement seals are very difficult to get seated properly.
Refilling and checking needs to be done before returning to customer.
If you collect a Forza from a fuel pump recall and the tank is empty, don't accept the scooter back until its been filled and checked.

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:42 am

What is with these dealers!, or rather the service people. It seems most of them are incompetent at being a mechanic! I wonder, in your case, if all the fuel leaked out and evaporated before you collected it or they did not put much back in as they realised something was wrong!

homie · Post by **homie** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:40 am

Good grief... one of these days a Forza going to flame out. I would have been tempted to step back and toss cigarette at that point.

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:37 am

Mine is back at the dealer for the 3rd time...1st for pump recall, 2nd & 3rd for fuel leak resulting from replacing the fuel pump. On this last leak it took a day for it to show up. The service manual says to always use a new o-ring and dust seal when installing the pump AND to coat both the o-ring and the recess where it fits into with oil. Wonder if they are doing this.

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:22 am

UPDATE FROM THE FIRST POSTING,ok I took the scooter apart to see what the dealer did wrong causing this massive fuel leak after the fuel pump recall , this leak is caused by the o ring not installed properly as seen in the picture ,the other two pictures are of the same O ring on the work bench but different views and lighting and it's clear part of the o ring was pinched when installed. So now it's 100% clear on what's going on with all these fuel leaks after fuel pump recall!

Don

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:58 pm

SteveP wrote:Mine is back at the dealer for the 3rd time...1st for pump recall, 2nd & 3rd for fuel leak resulting from replacing the fuel pump. On this last leak it took a day for it to show up. The service manual says to always use a new o-ring and dust seal when installing the pump AND to coat both the o-ring and the recess where it fits into with oil. Wonder if they are doing this.

An update...I stopped at the dealer today to see how things were going with my Forza (it's been there over 3 days). Found it sitting outside with fuel dripping out the bottom! The manager inside said they'd had the Honda Rep out to look at it and the Rep gave them some hints on how to successfully install the pump...ones others have had success with. Apparently this is a recognized problem that Honda must be aware of. The dealer guy said the problem, as he mentioned before, is that the oring swells when gasoline touches it. Especially, he said, with this ethanol/gasoline mix we have. That seems a bit surprising, since I believe the scooter is suppose to be okay with 10% alcohol mix. 100% gasolene is very hard to come by here in the Midwest, especially if you have to make an unplanned fill up. If this swelling is the problem, I mentioned that the fuel filter is a filter bag attached to the bottom of the pump and maybe fuel left in it gets on the 0-ring when installing the oring on the pump. The saga continues...

you you · Post by **you you** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:02 pm

SteveP wrote:
SteveP wrote:Mine is back at the dealer for the 3rd time...1st for pump recall, 2nd & 3rd for fuel leak resulting from replacing the fuel pump. On this last leak it took a day for it to show up. The service manual says to always use a new o-ring and dust seal when installing the pump AND to coat both the o-ring and the recess where it fits into with oil. Wonder if they are doing this.
An update...I stopped at the dealer today to see how things were going with my Forza (it's been there over 3 days). Found it sitting outside with fuel dripping out the bottom! The manager inside said they'd had the Honda Rep out to look at it and the Rep gave them some hints on how to successfully install the pump...ones others have had success with. Apparently this is a recognized problem that Honda must be aware of. The dealer guy said the problem, as he mentioned before, is that the oring swells when gasoline touches it. Especially, he said, with this ethanol/gasoline mix we have. That seems a bit surprising, since I believe the scooter is suppose to be okay with 10% alcohol mix. 100% gasolene is very hard to come by here in the Midwest, especially if you have to make an unplanned fill up. If this swelling is the problem, I mentioned that the fuel filter is a filter bag attached to the bottom of the pump and maybe fuel left in it gets on the 0-ring when installing the oring on the pump. The saga continues...

Ah the good old Rep round...its a classic.

fish · Post by **fish** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:21 pm

Forza300 Don, Well done!
Very helpful post, & with pictures of the problem!
I simply find it hard to believe that Honda is trying to use an 0-ring that is not compatible with gasoline.
Frankly I do not buy that - I think the pump/0-ring/dust protector ensemble just needs a bit of care when it is slipped into place.
Perhaps it is a tight fit....and a too soft ring might make this an struggle?
That partially squashed 0 ring looks pinched - not swelled.

I replaced the fuel pump in my Kymco scooter with an aftermarket pump and dealt with a very firm & tight fitting 0 ring (that big brown ring) but a little grease helped the assembly back together. (FYI- that whole stock assembly was @$200 - but switching out just the in-tank pump w/new filter & hoses was around $40 - and it works a treat)

Fish

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:21 pm

I think most techs are just installing pump and o ring dry and once on its hard to see if the o ring is in proper position due to the dust seal ,hiding the o ring under it , I will find out soon as I get my parts I'm waiting for a new o ring and dust seal from the dealer that did my fuel pump recall, I'm also thinking of contacting honda Canada in there tech line assistance to let them know what's going on , (they maybe already know ) I did work with them on many other issues on the car side for over twenty years, in Canada I would be surprised if there were one hundred Forzas sold last year in canada so our country would not be on a priority list compared to Italy or other countries that sell more scooters, I did take a lot more pictures and documented more of this problem if needed.
Since we all like pictures here's what the forza looks like disabled to perform this recall. Sorry for the dark picture
Don

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:47 pm

Here is a clearer picture of forza disassembled for fuel pump removal

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:01 pm

Forza 300 wrote:I think most techs are just installing pump and o ring dry and once on its hard to see if the o ring is in proper position due to the dust seal ,hiding the o ring under it , I will find out soon as I get my parts I'm waiting for a new o ring and dust seal from the dealer that did my fuel pump recall, I'm also thinking of contacting honda Canada in there tech line assistance to let them know what's going on , (they maybe already know ) Don

The dealer said they were using oil to coat the oring and that the trouble they were having was that the pump would not "snap" down into it's recess and stay there like it should, but would pop (my word) back out.

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:45 am

The techs if installing the o ring properly and coating the o ring with a film of oil ,what they might be doing wrong is ,once they push the pump down they must keep downward pressure or the o ring will come out of place , but in my case the o ring never was in place because there was a section of the o ring that was clearly outside ( pinched) from either no oil put on the o ring or when pushing the pump in they were not pushing it down evenly into the hole causing one side of the o ring to come off and then getting pinched outside and the tech can't really see properly with the dust seal hiding the o ring under it . Unless they really inspect it properly, I'm thinking before I get my new fuel pump o ring I maybe will try installing the old o ring without the dust seal and see how well it seats , my old o ring a day later after removing it ,is now starting to look like a new o ring it's regaining its original shape and is now hard to see were it was pinched. It's not going to hurt anything to give it a try! The bike is all apart and I'm going to put a new o ring anyway! The old o ring maybe is stretched as when I remouved it it was a bit loose on were it was supose to fit on the pump . I will keep this post updated. Oh and if anybody has a copy of the procedure from honda on the recall it would be nice to post it ,because when the dealer did the recall on mine they remouve two screws under the fuel filler door and left them out , I don't know why because they don't have to remouve anything at the top of the gas tank ,it's all under the seat storage box! Maybe the tech. Didn't know what he was doing!
Don

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:04 am

The excuse from dealers/reps must be BS as the bikes do not have a reputation for leaking from new or use until the faulty pump is replaced - then somehow the 'replacements' are not fit for purpose. What do Honda supply - good ones for new sales and ones not fit for purpose in spares!

fish · Post by **fish** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:23 pm

Service reps are just like the rest of us - doing the best they can, BUT.... they gotta have an answer for the customer: "Bad batch of fuel-inflating 0-rings, Ma'am. My man, 'Scooter', spotted it straight off and we've faxed the boys in the Orient and they are Care Flighting a bag of new ones in tonight!"
I had a genuine Honda Power Sports, Honda certified, (Gold or Silver or Platinum certified - I forget which) technician working on my Forza in my garage a few weeks ago. (I should have taken a picture of this!)
He had snapped two Rear Spoiler Covers while replacing my fuel pump at the dealership - and the serv. rep. sent him 30 miles on a house-call with a new part for my scoot.
He was a nice young fellow - all business, with a Honda manual just like mine. And he started removing screws under panels and pulling on lower, middle panels....and I'm thinking we're going to be breaking more tabs in this cold garage. So I mentioned that the new cover just slips into place with no need to be removing things so far forward. He said that he was going to follow the manual's instructions....
My point is, he was trying to be attentive to the official Honda manual instructions - and he wasn't trying to take any shortcuts - but this manual really is pretty vague about some of these procedures. More experience working these procedures will likely be good for us all.
I only hope they sell enough of these Forzas in the middle of Ohio to get 'experienced'.
Fish

you you · Post by **you you** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:11 pm

Ideally they just need to do what they do in the engine assembly plant. I suspect there are instructions there.

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:07 pm

UPDADE My fuel pump o ring and dust seal still isn't in ,so today I find out the fuel pump o ring is back ordered until the middle of the month of May , now I'm really pissed off the scooter is now off the road for 3 months , I tought I bought a new scooter to drive! Great
Maybe honda is updating the o ring part ,or they have had lots of failures and can't keep stock.

Really unhappy forza owner
Don

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:12 pm

That's a bit like we heard when the new 2015 pcx's hit UK shores - you could buy them but spare panels were back-ordered for months - so if the worst happened, your dealer could not repair your bike for ages! Not good Honda - a company your size and with many dealers, spare parts should be off the shelf so to speak. You sell it, you should have support for break-downs/repairs from day 1 and keep stock.

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:47 pm

Forza 300 wrote:UPDADE My fuel pump o ring and dust seal still isn't in ,so today I find out the fuel pump o ring is back ordered until the middle of the month of May , now I'm really pissed off the scooter is now off the road for 3 months , I tought I bought a new scooter to drive! Great
Maybe honda is updating the o ring part ,or they have had lots of failures and can't keep stock.

Really unhappy forza owner
Don

Well that's a crock of shyte! Not something I would expect from Honda, but it did take a few weeks for me to get a sealing oring for the belt filter case. Orings are made in the millions...should be easy to keep up with the demand. My Forza has now been at the dealer for 8 days. They claim it's fixed and not leaking...but are holding on to it for another day to be sure. I'll ask them about oring availiability...maybe they have some in stock. If the size can be determined they might be availiable from another source....like a bearing supply house or even a motorcycle shop. the material is critical of course...are they suppose to swell on contact with gasoline or not??? If so, maybe the swelling is part of the sealing process. ???

Forza 300 · Post by **Forza 300** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:42 pm

Ok I just got back in from working on the scooter I decided to reuse the o ring that was pinched by the dealer when they did the fuel pump recall,there's no way I'm waiting a couple of months or more for honda to get new o rings or they can have this scooter back I bought it to drive not sit in the garage in a million pieces, so after two days the o ring reshaped itself and there were no nicks in it here is how I got it fixed , the fuel pump must be sitting perfectly straight on the tank with the o ring sitting even all the way around the fuel tank tapered hole , there is no room for error , I lubed the o ring with dish soap ( one drop ) and spread even all around then lubed the tank taper with the film left on my finger I then remouved the dust seal and put the pump in the hole I did this so I could see that the o ring was sitting even all the way around the tank opening I then held it lightly in place and then put the pump hold down brackets on and tightened the nuts a little at a time in a crisscross patern this is very important because if you tighten one nut too much the pump will be pulled in too much on one side and cause the o ring to pop out , once all nuts tightened down I then backed them all off and remouved the pump brackets,(but don't pull the pump out)I did this to get a look at the o ring to see if it's in properly , IT IS.. Ok now I need to put the dust seal on , i lubed the dust seal with dish soap then started to push it on while the pump is still in tank I know this is not the way to do it but there's no way I'm taking the pump out risking to get the o ring out of place, this can be done , I carefuly worked the dust seal on ,it's diffecult du to the pump tabs but I got it with the help of a small pick tool , filled the tank and NO LEAKS , I will wait until the morning to make sure there are no leaks , then I will put all the body panels on , I think honda can fix this problem by making a longer and wider taper on the fuel tank ,so it would be less critical to have pump perfectly straight in the hole.

Don

The Honda PCX / Forza / ADV150 / SH Forums

Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall

Re: Honda forza 300 fuel pump recall leaks gas after recall