Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

General Honda Forza 300 chat, questions about the Forza, or questions about riding.

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chicaboo
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Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

Hey gang,

Today I was at the Honda dealer shopping for some new summer gloves when I decided to have a sit on the Forza 300 to see what all the fuss is about.
Compared to the PCX it's a noticeably bigger scooter, but still appears manageable for manoeuvring, parking and filtering.
I really liked the way the sculpted seat cupped/supported my butt. :oops: It felt really comfortable for the few minutes I was on there, at least.
The floor boards give the same latitude in unobstructed leg position variety that you get on the PCX, but they're wider.
However, my knees were about 6mm off the dashboard! This is the one that kills the Forza for me. Any abrupt stop seems like it would result in double knee reconstruction...
There was no key in the ignition, so I didn't test if my XL RJays SP2 helmet could fit under the seat.

I then went across the road to the Royal Enfield dealer to have a sit on the Kymco Downtown 350i.
Dam, this scoot seemed as much bigger to the Forza, as the Forza does to the PCX! Throwing a leg over when you're in bad shape like me, was a challenge.
The seat had a similar feel to the Forza, maybe not quite as supportive? But not having spent any significant time in either saddle, I can't say for sure...
Wow, the handlebars were just in the right spot! It felt like I could sit on this scoot without having to search for a comfortable riding position to suit my back.

The floor boards... Why oh why did they have to put a step there to lock your toes in? You either run your feet flat or lift your legs completely up onto the ramp.
Once my feet were up on the ramped part of the floorboards, I really did feel like I was in a cruiser position with my knees slightly higher than my hips.
I'm not sure this is a deal breaker, as it's certainly still better than anything Piaggio offer as far as foot position options go. But it's worth some consideration.

Now the things that peeved me. Dam glossy black plastic bezel around the base of the handlebars. I can't see this looking good after a couple of years of use...
As big as the scoot is, I couldn't fit my XL RJays SP2 under the seat in either position. The front helmet space seems only adequate for a M/L open face 3/4 helmet.
The rear helmet space appears to be roughly the same as the PCX, except narrower. The seat doesn't quite completely close with my helmet just as with the PCX.
The porous matte white paint on the demo bike had attracted some smudges in the showroom. The grey colour held up much better and appears easier to maintain.

Unfortunately, the current 2016/17 Forza only comes in black in Aus, and I'm no fan of that. Otherwise, apart from the tight knee room, it seemed a good size scoot.
The Downtown 350i was a pretty good fit. But does seem like it would be harder to manage when parking, etc. I also wonder how the gloss/matte finishes would hold up?
Both scoots seem to have similar storage spaces about the dash, but I didn't get to look under the seat on the Forza. Both have ABS, and the Kymco sports an extra ~50cc.

What do you guys think that have test ridden both?
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Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by kramnala58 »

This thread was moved to Forza>>General
2010 Honda PCX 125 in Thailand (White) - "White Lightning" Sold in Sept 2017 :(
2009 Yamaha Majesty YP400 in USA (Metalic Titanium) - "The Throne" Sold in June 2020 :(
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

Oops.

Oh yeah, the Kymco had adjustable brake levers, too. I thought that was a great standard feature.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by JetPilot »

Kymco VS Honda ??????????? SERIOUSLY ????????? There is no comparison...

Your knee observation is flawed, if you hit something, it wont matter if you have 5 MM distance, or 5 inches. Also, the plastic is not like having metal there, the plastic will give in any impact. The possibilities of injury on a front impact vary so much, it is pretty ridiculous making that assumption.

50 CC is nothing when considering those sizes, other factors will have FAR MORE impact on performance and riding. Again, what are you thinking ?

RELIABILITY: I would put my money on Honda any day over Kymco, see the first line of this post...

HANDLING: Handlign is EVERYTHING when riding, and Honda got it right. If the Kymco feels like a fat pig compared to the Honda, why would you even consider it ??? For what, some mal conceived, bad assumption about knee clearance ???

COLOR: This is the only thing you have made any sense on... Black would not be my favorite color, but I would take reliability, light feel, Honda quality, and handling ANY DAY over color choice. Personally, I love the metallic red of the PCX, but I can live with the lighter RED of the Forza, or black,or whatever they give us for 2017...

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by gn2 »

The DT350 isn't imported to the UK yet. :(

Kymco maxis are so good that Kawasaki staked their reputation on a Kymco built model as their entry into the maxi scooter market.

ALL Thai built Honda models have suffered manufacturing/design/quality control isues, I've had problems with both of mine and will never buy another.

The knee room problem on the Forza 300 means that some people will simply not fit on a Forza, the PCX has more knee room ffs.
The upper ramp section footrests on Kymcos are for a child sitting in front of the rider.

The longest footboards on any 300-400 class scooter are on a Piaggio X10.

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

We don't get the J300, or any Kwaka scooters down here. Are they built by Kymco or just use their engine?
We only get the 500cc X10 down here now, so I've never given them a look. And it's ugly as sin in imho...
All the Piaggio scooters below it have no forward foot position. The Yourban300 (MP3?) almost does.
I use the forward foot ramp on the PCX regularly, it's a shame it seems to be such an exclusive design.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by JetPilot »

gn2 wrote:The DT350 isn't imported to the UK yet. :(



ALL Thai built Honda models have suffered manufacturing/design/quality control isues, I've had problems with both of mine and will never buy another.

The knee room problem on the Forza 300 means that some people will simply not fit on a Forza, the PCX has more knee room ffs.
You are just WRONG about Hondas built in Thailand. Honda builds MANY different types of scooters and motorcycles in Thailand that have awesome reputations, and are bulletproof reliable. CB500's , CB300's, CRF250's, and many others. Just because you had a few minor problems with first model year on the Forza does not mean anything.

You did not read the authors post very well did you ? He did NOT say he did not fit on the Forza... He only speculated on what happens in an accident. Your comment about not fitting is irrelevant to the origional posters concerns, so HOW is this remotely important in this case ???

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by JetPilot »

gn2 wrote:
Kymco maxis are so good that Kawasaki staked their reputation on a Kymco built model as their entry into the maxi scooter market.
That means exactly NOTHING. Kawasaki can specify better materials, better design, more money spent on building their scooter. Kymco's own designs can still be designed to be super cheap, and substandard, built for the third world cheap market.

You are just full of bad assumptions today...

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by gn2 »

JetPilot wrote:You are just WRONG about Hondas built in Thailand. Honda builds MANY different types of scooters and motorcycles in Thailand that have awesome reputations, and are bulletproof reliable. CB500's , CB300's, CRF250's, and many others.

You did not read the authors post very well did you ? He did NOT say he did not fit on the Forza... He only speculated on what happens in an accident. Your comment about not fitting is irrelevant to the origional posters concerns, so HOW is this remotely important in this case ???

Mike
CB500 (all variants) plagued with high oil consumption, fuel tank issues and self disassembling rocker gear.
CB300 defective crankshafts.
CRF250 dodgy starters.

My comments were not addressed directly at the OP, they were standalone comments which are factually correct.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by Oyabun »

gn2 wrote: CB500 (all variants) plagued with high oil consumption, fuel tank issues and self disassembling rocker gear.
Ummm. I don't know about the other two on your list, But I'm regular on both the CBR500R, the CB500x, Adventure rider (CB500x and Rally raid CB500x), and a German language CB500 family forum - as well as riding a CB500f and CB500x regularly.

There was a recall on one single batch of bikes from 2013 where the documantation said:"Due to an incorrect procedure during manufacture of the Rocker Arm Shaft Sealing Bolt, it may come loose causing oil to leak from the engine." Never actually read anyone on any of the forums that it would happen to them. Same about the fuel level sender arm recall.
I have heard of 3-4 bikes out of all registered users about "high" oil consumption on the forums which are not related to the above recall.

Now if you'f say that the oem chain usually does not live further than 8k kms as it is cheap - I'd say you're right - but also check the price tag of the bike.

I'm (or rather I was) regular on other bike related forums, and I'm also very close to the motorcycle industry. Receiving and reading most customer satisfaction and quality related information from ADAC, Motorrad Magazin, importers, and reading Consumer reports. Not to mention I have an extensive network of motorcycle related professionals. It is true that Yamaha recently got ahead of Honda in manufacturing quality (also because they have moved their manufacturing to low labor cost countries like Vietnam and sold mainly high priced Japanese origin bikes longer). But the four Japanese manufacturers are miles ahead in quality to anybody else on the planet. Check quality issues of European (BMW, KTM) or American (Harley, ex Buell) manufacturers - not even mentioning Chinese- and you will realize how good Hondas are.

The 500 family is built to a price tag, but actually a lot better than one would expect from the specs. In general everybody (owners and journalists alike) seems to be very satisfied with these bikes. I never heard that you'd have any first person experience with any of them.

Reading your other comments from this forum compared to other owner's experiences - your evaluation seems to have quite a negative bias towards the quality of these bikes.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by Andreas »

chicaboo wrote:Hey gang,

Today I was at the Honda dealer shopping for some new summer gloves when I decided to have a sit on the Forza 300 to see what all the fuss is about.
Compared to the PCX it's a noticeably bigger scooter, but still appears manageable for manoeuvring, parking and filtering.
I really liked the way the sculpted seat cupped/supported my butt. :oops: It felt really comfortable for the few minutes I was on there, at least.
The floor boards give the same latitude in unobstructed leg position variety that you get on the PCX, but they're wider.
However, my knees were about 6mm off the dashboard! This is the one that kills the Forza for me. Any abrupt stop seems like it would result in double knee reconstruction...
There was no key in the ignition, so I didn't test if my XL RJays SP2 helmet could fit under the seat.

I then went across the road to the Royal Enfield dealer to have a sit on the Kymco Downtown 350i.
Dam, this scoot seemed as much bigger to the Forza, as the Forza does to the PCX! Throwing a leg over when you're in bad shape like me, was a challenge.
The seat had a similar feel to the Forza, maybe not quite as supportive? But not having spent any significant time in either saddle, I can't say for sure...
Wow, the handlebars were just in the right spot! It felt like I could sit on this scoot without having to search for a comfortable riding position to suit my back.

The floor boards... Why oh why did they have to put a step there to lock your toes in? You either run your feet flat or lift your legs completely up onto the ramp.
Once my feet were up on the ramped part of the floorboards, I really did feel like I was in a cruiser position with my knees slightly higher than my hips.
I'm not sure this is a deal breaker, as it's certainly still better than anything Piaggio offer as far as foot position options go. But it's worth some consideration.

Now the things that peeved me. Dam glossy black plastic bezel around the base of the handlebars. I can't see this looking good after a couple of years of use...
As big as the scoot is, I couldn't fit my XL RJays SP2 under the seat in either position. The front helmet space seems only adequate for a M/L open face 3/4 helmet.
The rear helmet space appears to be roughly the same as the PCX, except narrower. The seat doesn't quite completely close with my helmet just as with the PCX.
The porous matte white paint on the demo bike had attracted some smudges in the showroom. The grey colour held up much better and appears easier to maintain.

Unfortunately, the current 2016/17 Forza only comes in black in Aus, and I'm no fan of that. Otherwise, apart from the tight knee room, it seemed a good size scoot.
The Downtown 350i was a pretty good fit. But does seem like it would be harder to manage when parking, etc. I also wonder how the gloss/matte finishes would hold up?
Both scoots seem to have similar storage spaces about the dash, but I didn't get to look under the seat on the Forza. Both have ABS, and the Kymco sports an extra ~50cc.

What do you guys think that have test ridden both?
I rode my forza for about a week before taking it to mod/recover the seat. Money well spent and a BIG improvement! I'm 6'3" and it feels proper! I now ride 90% of the time with feet forwards on the ramps. I also put two full face helmets under the seat. One's a XXL but that's just a Thai measurement.

Andreas
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

Thanks Andreas, what mods did you do to your seat?
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by easyrider »

The Kymco looks like a nice bike, but like the author says the knee issue is something needing to get used to. Coming from a PCX to a Forza or Kymco your knees are closer to the front console . The PCX gives you about 13 inches and you stand taller whereas in the Forza and Kymco you have a more subdued down in seating design that puts the knees up and close to the console. More of a couch seat then a scooter seat as found on the PCX. Once used to the PCX the roominess is hard to give up however , I suppose you can get accustomed to the Forza- Kymco design. I think the PCX gives you more agility and maneuverability whereas the Forza, Kymco gives you more of a highway ride , and speed with stability. The PCX is very susceptible to crosswinds and hills but its lightweight allows you to go almost anywhere. Decisions ???
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

The Kymco seemed like it would be a good tourer. The Forza seemed like a good all rounder if the leg room wasn't an issue.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by Andreas »

I had a local shop remove the offending back cushion and reupholster with different fabric. Doesn't really effect passenger space and really frees things up for me. My buddy with a pcx will ride sitting all the way back on pillion to get the same leg room. Always gives me a laugh.

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by chicaboo »

Apart from the diamond stitching, that's pretty much the same shape as the PowerbyPCX seat on my PCX, which lets me sit back slightly further too.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by gn2 »

Interesting looking silencer on your Forza Andreas, looks like the ones on the new NC and CB models.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by Andreas »

I also had them add a bit of extra padding. Here's a side profile shot. If your considering a forza and taller than 5'7" plan on changing up the seat. The exhaust is off of a ninja 300. I like the more aggressive angle to it. The sound is only marginally improved.

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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by easyrider »

I designed this homemade seat using a Cheeky cover. I used gel and foam carved out some plastic and now allows me to slide way back and get even more legroom. You naturally ride taller on the PCX and create more wind resistance but the unconfined seat allows more stretch and leg room.
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Re: Kymco DT 350i vs Forza 300

Post by pja2536 »

Chicaboo!

Can I offer some comments?

Like you, I also live in Australia. I have owned my black Forza 300 for several years. I use it around town and also for light touring with trips lasting from one to seven days.

My first gripe was THE SEAT! I found it awful, I'm not that tall but probably a little rotund, but I found I was sitting much too close to the handlebars and could not stretch my feet out enough for comfort on long rides. I should note that this was not such a problem for short around town rides. I solved the problem by getting MJM Custom Motorcycle Seats in Goulburn, NSW to re-shape my seat. See http://forzaseat.peter2536.fastmail.net/album/

Other issues with the Forza have included:
* The original Dunlop tyres were not good and wore quite quickly, under 8,000 km. These were replaced with Perrellis which have lasted quite well but their "vee" profile took some getting used to. When they wear out I will try a set of Sava tyres.
* The Forza has been subject to two recalls; one minor and one for a fuel pump (I think). Other than that its been extremely reliable.
* Power is disappointing. I rode a series of much larger bikes prior to the Forza and I know its only a "300" but there is no denying that it lacks pull occasionally. Note to Honda: A Forza 500 would be a world beater!

In relation to the Kymco; I believe they are made in Taiwan and not only do they make several different scooters for Kawasaki they also make engines and complete bikes for BMW. I don't think you would have any problems with a Kymco. Look on the Scooter Community website http://scootercommunity.com.au/forums/ there are a few Kymco riders there and none seem to complain.

My advice is ride as many different scooters AND bikes as you can before you buy! There are some really great bikes in the 250 - 400 cc category these days. They will be quicker than a Forza or Kymco but you will have to change your own gears :o :oops:

Now if I could make one last general comment. I have not posted on this forum for quite some time but I have really noticed the anger and bad temper some members have displayed in posts above. Difference makes the world go around; just because somebody likes something you don't doesn't make them stupid or you "right" for that matter. These forums work best when we are all civil to each other and try to help not ridicule each other. Just a personal view! :roll: :cry: ;) :D

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