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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:47 pm 
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never had a problem with the start/stop feature

I think it's less about saving fuel and more about those moments when everyone stopped at the lights has idle-start, cars and bikes. There's a moment of unexpected quiet in your day it's real nice


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:16 pm 
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Seems like the majority of cars have it too now. So if you stop for any length of time things go peaceful.

I suspect it’s one of those things well look back in a few years time and say “did we really do that” sit stationary together with our engines running....

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:00 pm 
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I have gotten so used to my car turning off that I will not have it any other way in a future vehicle. I know that a modern engine is using barely milliliters to idle, but psychologically knowing that I am not burning (and wasting) ANY fuel makes all the stoplights in my life far less of an annoyance.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:39 am 
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How in the world do you survive a red light with idle-stop??? Thou hast not been enlightened to the art of blipping:



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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:46 am 
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WI_Hedgehog wrote:
How in the world do you survive a red light with idle-stop???


Peacefully.
Turn throttle, engine fires in three tenths of a second and you're off.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:02 am 
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GeorgeSK wrote:
I have gotten so used to my car turning off that I will not have it any other way in a future vehicle. I know that a modern engine is using barely milliliters to idle, but psychologically knowing that I am not burning (and wasting) ANY fuel makes all the stoplights in my life far less of an annoyance.


But but you are American....

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:10 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Never had the idle stop fail to start my PCX instantly.
On other vehicles I have had engines cut out when moving off though...

The reason the engine cut out when moving off won't be fixed by a start stop feature.More parts,more chance of failure,and Cha ching goes the wallet.
If you want quiet go all electric which will soon be the norm for a scooter.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Idle stop on the PCX does not need require a single additional part.
There is simply nothing to go wrong over your non idle stop version.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:23 pm 
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gn2 wrote:
Idle stop on the PCX does not need require a single additional part. There is simply nothing to go wrong over your non idle stop version.
Well, on pre '14 models, the ECU battery monitoring protection was not in place and they had smaller capacity batteries, and some people had battery failures using this feature a lot (that's why Honda up-rated the battery and added ECU 'battery monitoring' in the firmware (service manual ammendment shows a graph with some explanation of the ECU battery monitoring check and idle-stop disablement).

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:31 pm 
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In addition,there are more sensors beefier timing chain,larger batteries,relays and modules.More ECU computing power.All this adds to more diagnostic complications .When you are at a stop and this fails to start..,where do you look .On a conventional engine there are many easy solutions one could apply to get back on the road.On this system there is no quick fix.Scan tools and additional equipment will surely be necessary to diagnose.Might be a good system but I prefer one that's easy to diagnose and fix.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:42 pm 
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THE SKY IS FALLING!!

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:53 pm 
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you you wrote:
THE SKY IS FALLING!!

Nope..more walking!


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:12 pm 
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easyrider wrote:
In addition,there are more sensors beefier timing chain,larger batteries,relays and modules.More ECU computing power.All this adds to more diagnostic complications


Cam chain is the same on idle stop and North American models and its also used in some much bigger engines: https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/microf ... S-931.html

The battery is the same on the Europe idle stop and North American models, the Yuasa YTZ7S.
Its a fairly standard motorcycle battery.

Can you tell me what additional sensors are required and their part numbers...?

True that the battery can go flat without warning in some circumstances on the early models without protection, but its not really a mechanical or electronic breakdown and very easy to sort, just get a jump start and off you go.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Part numbers? Brake sensor ,more wiring terminals ,connectors that can possibly fail,Some parts have to be beefier or should be..300,000 more jerks on a timing chain will in time increase stretch hence will increase fuel usage which will offset the whopping 8 to 15 percent fuel savings you are trying to achieve.The ecu has to time and reset the crank POS every stop..A body in motion tends to stay in motion and when you disrupt that momentum energy you waste energy.The increased computing power and additional inputs and parts required to accomplish a start and stop mechanism makes it more difficult to diagnose.I think you are falling into the corporate mentality that they can save you fuel.Yeah maybe,but at what price .Simple is better and a simple starting/ running system is best in my view especially at a meager 8-15 percent fuel savings.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:34 pm 
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I don't understand the big fuss about using idle-stop. It's a nice feature to have. Afraid of anything that might be broken? More parts, means more possibility of things that can go wrong? That's like taking the murphy law into the next level.

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:50 pm 
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What the?



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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:52 am 
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I do not use. I do 70km per day, on a work trip with the pcx 35km for each side, only once for tolls on the way to work ... besides the thrashing that this gives in the battery, the toll is 20km from home + - these 20 km are made in the background (funny) is not the best option to get to the tolls and turn off the engine..lol reconnect, switch back off and then follow the other 15 km in depth to work !!! I think I've used it 3 to 4 times ..lol

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:58 am 
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alx123 wrote:
I don't understand the big fuss about using idle-stop. It's a nice feature to have. Afraid of anything that might be broken? More parts, means more possibility of things that can go wrong? That's like taking the murphy law into the next level.



First world anxieties :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:37 pm 
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easyrider wrote:
Brake sensor ,more wiring terminals ,connectors that can possibly fail,Some parts have to be beefier or should be..300,000 more jerks on a timing chain will in time increase stretch hence will increase fuel usage which will offset the whopping 8 to 15 percent fuel savings you are trying to achieve...

300,000 jerks with power more than those that you give when accelerating on the scooter, so the burden say it makes no sense. Additional electronic components in some way may contribute to damage to your scooter due to the complexity of the design, but many years ago the injector was also something unusual after the carb.
How many would not listen when you run, there is no shake in the engine, it means soft start, so there is no extra load on the metal parts of the engine.
The only time I think the idle stop is not entirely appropriate - is to stop the engine after a long trip on the highway at high speeds, when the engine is working at maximum mode and is very hot and leads to the termination of circulation of coolant and possible local overheating of engine parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Idle Stop
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Injectors are more efficient and simpler than a carburetor.When an engine is in motion it has momentum which requires less torque than it does from a dead stop.There is only one good reason for this idle stop and it's fuel economy,and that's about it.Remember Newton laws..A body tends to stay in motion ..............


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